Tough Year. Still Managed Some Luck and Success

[PSEhunter]

Well, like 99% of hunters have already said this was an extremely tough season. I live on the Ohio WV border, and bow hunt primarily in South East Ohio. My grandpa and I have used cameras and hunted hard the past handful of years, and have had success of late. I was able to take a decent 9 point 4 years ago, and a nice 10 point 2 seasons ago that scored 139 after deductions. This season however it seemed ALL pictures of bucks were nocturnal, even during the hot and cold rut period. I took an 8 point in central WV early season, so I wasn't too bummed about not being able to kill let alone see nice bucks during the later part of the regular season and into gun season. Grandpa was able to take what we thought was a 10 we had a few pics of that ended up being a double brow 12. Since he shot that deer back in mid November, weve had only a handful of daylight buck pictures total, and never saw another buck while in the woods. I realize and know first hand hunting in WV and OHIO are two totally different ball games, with the amount of deer you see and trophys to be taken. However, this was by far the hardest year weve had as far as locating, seeing, or even getting pictures of deer.
Here are pictures of the bucks.
Grandpas 12
Central WV 8
10 point
9 point

[OHPA]

Just curious as how you feel WV and Ohio are totally different ball games? I hunt OH and PA and also feel the same way but I am always curious about others thoughts.

Thanks.

[PSEhunter]

I do not know any actual statistics, but just from hunting both my entire life, and from talking to buddies, hearsay, etc. As well as helping the local taxidermist in town.. I can sit in the woods in WV at most of my hunting spots and expect to see 15-25 deer if I sit daylight til dark. Of which, 3 may have horns, and the biggest will be a 4 or 5 point. Where I hunt at in Ohio, I am LUCKY to see 4-5 deer the whole weekend, but if I do, theres a good chance I see a shooter. Living on the border of WV, around the Parkersburg area, everyyybooddyyy is always trying to find land to lease, or opportunities to drive up north and hunt in Ohio. The 8 point this year I took was the first deer I've killed wider than 12" in WV.. Ive killed 4 bucks in Ohio, of which the smallest was 15" inside.. I'm sure some people reading this will argue facts, numbers of [I]reported[I] kills, etc. This is just my (the locals in this areas consensus) opinion, so take it for what its worth.

[mrbb]

well since i used to hunt WVm Ohio, and live in PA
pending how old you are, WV currently where I hunt, near Harrisonville, near SE ohio, its like again PA was in the boom of it deer herd like late 80's early 90's
when we had tons of deer, just very very few deer past the gae of 2.5, it was nothing to see deer just about any place you went
and in WV where I hunted(7-8 yrs, last time in 2010 ) about any place I sat in the weeds I seen deer, with most being doe or small bucks, and a decent 100+ inch buck being on the rarer side of things, due mostly I say because like in PA< folks just wanted to say they killed a buck, and not so much cared if it was a big one or not
the area I hunted was timbered all over and thus just had/has a ton of cover and great browse, fairly remote area, with a few farms here and there and not a ton of hunting pressure, I was on like a 1500 acre private tract, that maybe had 3 guys hunting it!
so deer numbers were very high, and all the borders of the land, was hunted very hard by neighbors, thus killing a lot of younger bucks, with every yr I hunted it bucks getting better and better
WV has a ton of deer, it it something like 10 times more likely to have a deer vehicle collision than any other state out there, which I bet helps keep numbers in check some(sadly), driving thru WV to Ohio, some yrs I have counted over a 100+ dead deer on the side of the road, in the few miles I ran thru it to get to Ohio, and many many close calls on hitting many too every yr!
PA glory yrs were like this to, but since the state and most private lands got so over browsed and lack of cover and thus food, the state started very liberal kills, and thus now here in PA< were getting closer to Ohio in quality(still far to go, but as close as ever)
PA and WV, have as TON less AG lands/farm lands, poorer soil quality on a whole, and as such, its also a reason we have smaller racked bucks in most places, it would more or less take a PA, WV deer more yrs to reach a same sized rack(some area's have better in both states) but on an average, soils add up to quality of deer too, something many hunters I feel miss understand
just food alone won't grow monster bucks, its a combo of good soil, food, age, and genitic's, when the srats align things can happen

so that's my opinion on why WV and Ohio are different places to hunt
its quality of soils, gens of deer, and food they get to eat
again on an average, as both Ohio and WV have area's of better and poorer soils and etc.

One other thing I think also that is HUGE deal to me, is the fact that MANY MANY MANY hunters in Ohio, know there are big bucks about, so,many are much more willing to leave smaller one's walk
in places like PA< and in WV where I hunted, like my hunting cabin for an example, its a 50+ yr hunting cabin, of 50+ yrs of deer hunting, with about starting of with about 10 guys and now about 40 in all
and in the first 30+ yrs no one ever even seen a buck in the 120's, simply cause thee just wasn't any or if any very very far and few
so no one would hold out for a big buck, cause they just didn't have any really to hold out for
and thus, you ended up with generations of hunters that just killed the first legal buck they seen
and that is still a huge problem in PA
still tons of generations of old time hunters that still feel that way, and that also is why many area in PA still suffer from few and far between big bucks
In Ohio, every area I have hunted, in the short period of time, say a week, or less, I have always seen 120+ class bucks in a hunt, may never have got one, but seen them
so I had less desire to kill a small buck, cause I knew bigger were about
hunt 15-20 yrs in pa and never even see a 120 class buck
and you lower your standards pretty fast LOL
you can poll hunters in PA< any one that has been at it for more than 20 yrs, and I would bet a ton of $$ that says if any have ever seen a 150 inch buck it has MAYBE been in the last 4-5 yrs, and any others before that were in other states LOL
not many folks in Ohio can say the same, I am willing to bet any hunter in ohio that has been hunting for more than 5 yrs can say they seen a 150 class buck, again, maybe not killed it, but you seen one, and know there about
PA's antler restrictions is the only reason we have started to get bigger bucks, had that not happened, we would still be killing 90% spiker's and 1.5 yr old bucks!

[PSEhunter]

mrbb your post hits the nail on the head, entirely. I just didnt go as in depth. Also, Ohios laws are much more strict. In WV, you get 3 bucks (legally), as a common hunter, assuming you dont even own any land. I can kill one with my buck, one wiht my rifle, and buy an additional stamp. Thus, compounding all factors such as less good soil, rack size, amount of deer, etc, any time a buck that even scores 70-80 walks in front of a hunter, he shoots it. The average middle class to old West Virginian just wants to be able to walk into work the following week, and brag about killing a buck, that may only be 11-12 inches wide. Why not shoot that buck an hour into opening morning? Go home, watch sports. and Go back out Tuesday morning and shoot another the same size!?!.. I am only 22, so I may have have the plethora of knowledge as an older "savvy" hunter. But as stated in my earlier post, everybodys goal is to cross the border and hunt for the big boys in Ohio.

[mrbb]

Well I have been hunting a long time, and hunted in many places, and know a ton of hunters all over
so I tend to have a good insight on hunting and mind sets of many sides to base experiences on any more
QDM has been a god sent to having better bucks all over, but unless a person owns a lot of land, or is working close with neighbors, its hard to even grow big bucks in many places
places like Ohio, and any of the top 5 B&C producing states, all have top quality soil, and as such, just knowing bigger bucks are about, saves a ton of smaller bucks
add in how many non residents pay top prices to travel to these places, where a fee can be added to shooting a small buck, and quality of deer in these states increases
as outfitters, need to maintain sized deer, thus do btter land improvments, and work better with heighboring lands, making even better quality of deer
states that don't draw hunters based on quality of bucks, loose a lot of these gains, furthering the smaller bucks in these area's/states
add in how many game depts, sat on there ass's for decades, thinking deer would just take care of them selves?? And the ball grows
states with huge ag areas/farms, had that going for them, where as more wooded states lacked the high quality offering again
falls back to soil in my eyes, and builds off it

[89trackerpro17]

I agree with you mrbb. I've hunted PA for 25 years. The buck quality has increased since the antler restriction. I have tried to talk many people into passing on small bucks for at least 20 years. But most have the attitude of if I don't kill that small buck someone else will. We all need to get this mentality out of our heads. I keep pushing my philosophy to everyone I talk to. So hopefully some have a second thought or better yet just pass on that small buck. Don't know why people think they have to kill a small buck just to say they killed a buck. You can't eat antlers so why kill a small buck to me there is no personal achievement in killing small bucks. If you need meat kill a doe.

[nomad_archer]

So mrbb and 89tracker, I am one that has started to come around and believe in QDM and letting smaller bucks pass but that is only because I have seen some of the successes of a friend who does that and he consistently gets a great buck but he puts in alot of time.

On the other hand people buy licenses and are entitled to shoot whichever legal buck there heart desires. I shoot does for meat but I usually dont pass on many as long as they are not fawns I usually take the opportunity. The fact is the areas I hunt are large big woods public hunting areas in NW PA at my hunting camp. You typically have only one maybe two opportunities on a deer up there. Sometimes none at all. This year my old man hunted quite a bit in PA with a bow and rifle and never had a quality opportunity its just what it is. The antler restrictions are great and they have really helped but the herd reduction that when with those regulations when to far in the northern parts of the state. There just arnt very many deer. They are making a bit of a come back now that seasons have been adjusted but still they are few and far between. As for shooting smaller bucks if it is legal then I feel people are should not be looked down on for shooting whatever buck makes them happy. Yes passing on smaller bucks helps produce bigger bucks but some people just enjoy a successful hunt and that small basket rack six makes their year just as much as a 160" class buck would make yours. More and more people are passing on smaller bucks so you are going to see bigger bucks but every PA hunters goal is not the same. Any deer that a hunter takes and is proud of is a great personal achievement in my opinion.

If you want to trophy hunt then go about doing that but dont force everyone else to trophy hunt the same as you. Personally I have been passing on smaller bucks recently but if I have a nice say 80-100" deer walk by me up at my camp I may take that opportunity as it is a bigger buck by the standards up at my camp and I dont believe I have gotten one that big up there. I have only gotten a handful of bucks in my hunting career so any legal buck and deer for that matter is great and is celebrated as such. I have taken quite a few does over the years and we still celebrate those as well.

Maybe one day I will get to the point where I have the time and access to land where I will be passing on all of the smaller bucks that walk by but at this point I am not there. I believe in QDM and will let some of the smaller ones pass but at my camp if I like it I will shoot it. Thats just a counter opinion to what you guys are saying. I dont want to start a pissing match but I just feel like if it is legal and someone wants to take the animal then I have zero problem with that.

[mrbb]

Nomad I agree a the size of the kill shouldn't matter , as long as the hunter is happy
BUT since so many hunters use the . "IF I don't kill it someoen else will" excuse, and also hear so many hunters say, they wish they would get a big buck
well only way this happens is if foklks stop shooting smaller bucks
and to be honest, its not a great thing to be doing on the science side of things
there is plenty of proven data that having older deer breed, makes for a stronger better health herd
I too grew up hunting in the big woods, and still do from time to time, so I hear what your saying about quality
but at the same time, over killing deer in these places, was also, the hunters hunting there 's fault as much as the state's
hearing so many hunters in these area's cry about there being no deer left where there used to be tons, and then still killing every legal one they see
they are there own problem(granted teh state did allow the over kill)
but at same time, one main reason there is a lack of deer in ANY area, is lack of what a deer needs to live 24/7/365
and this fact seems to fall on deaf ears of far too many hunters
far too many hunters say well deer klived there yrs back, so should still be able to live there now
and that's is just wrong thinking
the forest have matured a ton, and the lack of new forest regeneration, left the mature forest , with poor if any good food for deer to live off yr round
I will blame the state here a LOT
as I am sure you heard me say this
and a asecond problem with these so called major BIG tracted state/federal forest(and not bashing at all)
is that these places come rifle season, turn into major hunting spots, with ten's of thousands or more hunters flocking to these areas, more so in the past, but still happens
so when you get a few hundred thousand hunters hunting in places that see little human traffic , and all these hunters feeling its a expected RIGHT to go home with a buck, they tend to kill first legal buck they see
most just do it cause they want to say they killed a buck, or just any deer for many
this thinking doesn't help an area where low deer numbers are, or poor habitat managment has been going on
thus hunters in these places can be as big or bigger parts of the problems
they can cry about the deer all they want, but if they keep killing deer, they are the problem
just cause you live own or?? doesn't mean you have to still hunt there
I know the feeling, I have a farm, I hunt loaded near deer, deer live off farm, and due to people about me, I cannot really hunt it no more, ot sucks
but moving would solve my hunting issue's
I can and have many other places to hunt, But I prefer to hunt at this farm, due to all I put into it, but its getting to the point, its a waste of my time
right thing for me to do would be hunt lese where

same answer it is for many others, yet most don't like this answer
few do anything to change the answer, by doing any real QDM to the lands they have access to, holding back on killing any more deer, , going to state meetings, writing state officials
they want the easy ride, with having the problem magically fixed by ???
again, I am not bashing on you Nomad
just pointing out problems and the facts, we the hunters are as much to blame as any state dept
granted the state has the power to change more, or does it??

[89trackerpro17]

I like the way you think mrbb. Agree 100%