my 2013 trespassing deer kill story!

[mrbb]

OK so since the site was down so much, didn't get to post this story
so back on Oct 19 th, I had a friend come up to hunt my place, he made a 3 hr drive and got there a few minutes before I did, and since he has been hunting her a few yrs , just decided to go into a stand to hunt
while walking into the stand he found a dead buck, so he called me to tell me,
I was 5 minutes out, so told him to just wait there by the deer in case anyone came, as I hunted right near where this dead deer was the evening before, so, knew it was a fresh kill
so its like 2 pm or so, on my way to the farm I drove past my local game warden, there is a state park down the road, so he is always there, so I knew he was close by if I needed him
as I am about 250 yrds from the driveway to the farm I see a neighbor with another guy dressed in camo, holding a bow, and pacing back and forth as I drive by
me and this neighbor don't exactly get along, he has a habit of trespassing and well he brings guys in to hunt that also trespass on my on the farm I manage!
I have not been able to have him arrested for it, but he know's I am willing to, so he tends to try to avoid me.


SO, I get to the farm, and up to the deer, and can tell right off what happened
and have a good idea now who killed it, the guy I seen on the way in, as its only about 350 yrds from this guy, and not far off the property line where these guys hunt all the time

SO I call the game warden, tell him, I had a illegally killed deer and that I have a very good idea who killed it
he says what do I mean an illegally killed deer
I tell him by a guy that was hunting without permission
he tells me that is NOT an illegal kill
its a trespassing issue and he doesn't do anything about that stuff
I say well what about the fact a deer was killed and left behind??
still doesn't care??
I say well what do you want me to do with the deer??
he say's what ever I want?
I say then, OK come and get it!
he tells me NO, not his job, and again I can do what I want??
I say Bullcrap, I know your very close by come and get it, and while your here, go and ask this hunter I seen and am 99% sure , the hunter that killed it and left it behind, and go and ask him maybe if its his, and if you, tell him he was trespassing and I plan to press charges, he refuses
tells me he has no authority to ask anyone hunter if they killed a deer??
I call Bullcrap again, and tell him that is exactly what his job is, a deer was killed, he is a game warden, and thus, this is a game violation,
even bring up wanton waste, as I know that's a law??
he still doesn't even want to come to see the kill! WTF< anyone ever hear me complain about my game dept, well this is why!, there useless!
so after me telling him I just seen him drive by and I KNOW he is close by, he says OK I will come look at the deer!
he shows up, can literally drive up to deer
he see's its been killed with a bow, arrow is still in it, we back track the blood trail right to 10 yrds from one of my treesdtands
and even he says, the guy that shot this deer was in one of MY treestands, pissed me off even more, but??
so I say well see, he was trespassing, no one has permission to hunt other than folks I allow and they have to tell me when they are hunting, and NON of them were there this morning, when the deer was shot
this deer was shot, ran maybe 40 yrds from the stand and died in plain view, a blind man could have seen it when it went down, even the warden says so!
says for sure NO way anyone that shot it could miss it
they just shot it and left it!!
a waste
again, wanton waste I bring up, falls on deaf ears!
me and this warden proceed to chat, and he tells me most of the rules in the handbook we get as hunters when we buy a hunting lic, are all wrong??
I say well if there all wrong, why print them?? as there many times used by hunters to know what there are doing is correct, so having wrong info in there screws us ??
he doesn't care
I ask/try again to NOW get him to go see this hunter I was telling him is more than likely the shooter here of this deer
he again plain outright refuses to go talk to him, I suggest, OK why not just go ask him if its his deer, and give him the dam deer, so this way at least he won't be back this yr to trespass again, and maybe kill a second buck??
he stil says NO
and that I should be happy he is even here and is going to take the deer to a road kill pit, and dump it!
so OK< I try this, how about I give you a tip on a guy hunting near bait!, as its illegal to hunt near bait in PA, no baiting is legal here prior to 30 days before the season that is
he says well OK that I can maybe(WHAT MAYBE??)
maybe do something
K so this neighbor I was telling him about, he feeds deer, and brings in hunters, and he has them hunting less than a 10 yrds fro where he feeds them, I hear a LOT of rifle shots at last light there too all the time, so how about go and bust his as about hunting over bait then
says, well, I'll keep that in mind, but not today!!
WTF!!
useless game dept !!!!!
I say well what about them having minerall blocks under there treestands
as they have them too,, he says again, maybe I'll come back in rifle season then?? , what that is like 6 weeks away, why not NOW< when I know there hunting tonight!!!
says doesn't have time ??

he loads the deer up and leaves!
here is the deer they killed, a young 8 pointer
and once again, just proves to me how bad the game dept is here in PA
so all you guys that complain about Ohio, DCNR, trust me it could be worse, much worse
not usre how much more red handed a guy can be and not even get asked a single question by a warden than this?? this warden wouldn't have even had to get out of his truck to ask this hunter a question and still refused to help!!!



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[deerguy10]

Ridiculous! wow... sorry you have to deal with this sort of thing! what a waste!

[mrbb]

Yup I have said it before, my state game dept sucks
they didn't even use the deer, they just scrapped it , could have at least maybe donated it to a feed the huntry, due to being only a few hrs dead, but bO, they took it and dumped in in a road kill pit, total waste

[nomad_archer]

Wow first that is a terrible shot. Second hunting in PA I know all to well how they act. When they decide to check your information they act like the big bully on the street and give everyone the third degree. They even jammed my gun trying to check if the shotgun was plugged. Then he couldn't get the action to stay open (semi auto) and was slamming away on it. I was less than pleased. At this point they are useless and I try to avoid them the best I can its just now worth the aggravation. I used to like to chat with the guys in the parking area to see what everyone saw. Now I just pack it in and head to camp. Its just not worth it.

[Strother23]

That is a crazy story. Sorry to hear that you had to deal with that. Dealing with useless rangers and neighbors that trespass and kill a young buck on your land. Simply crazy.

[mrbb]

Wow first that is a terrible shot. Second hunting in PA I know all to well how they act. When they decide to check your information they act like the big bully on the street and give everyone the third degree. They even jammed my gun trying to check if the shotgun was plugged. Then he couldn't get the action to stay open (semi auto) and was slamming away on it. I was less than pleased. At this point they are useless and I try to avoid them the best I can its just now worth the aggravation. I used to like to chat with the guys in the parking area to see what everyone saw. Now I just pack it in and head to camp. Its just not worth it.
that's been the norm for me too, they dig into you liek your a crook, and just trying to find what they can stick on you
and why I even called them , I expected they would hammer this guy, with issue's and a point blank illegal kill and no effort to recover
and this dam warden plain out right refused to even talk to the guy, telling me he has no power to do that and a bunch of other crap
I even called harrisburg, told them the story, and asked them if anything this warden told me was right, and they refused to asnwer me, saying I had to go contact his boss
I was like well, why do I have to do that, isn't all game laws and wardens powers the same state wide, why should it matter where it happened at, and why have to ask his boss if the thgs he said are correct, all game laws have direct answers, so??

and they refused to answer me on that
Crappy game dept in PA

and as for the shot, was a severe quartering to the hunter(if you can call him that)
\ and believe it or not the deer didn't go 50 yrds from the shot!
so a lucky kill, a poor shot that just worked out
I have hunted in 15+ states, talked to and delbt with wardens in every state on purpose, and was never treated with anything but kindness and willingness to help
a pure shame PA 's dept sucks so bad
30+ yrs of hunting in Pa, and dealing with the Commission, and even selling there lic's for many yrs
I have ZERO good contacts with any of them and I hunt all over the state
when I had the gun store , I heard countless stories of being harassed and bothered for no reason, stopped and searched for no reason
and then when I want them to do there job, they act like I am bothering them
simply sad
and almost pointless to call them
a few yrs back I had a guy poach a deer, had deer in his truck, was stuck in our field, shot deer from truck, in 2 ft of sbnow, dragged deer from where he shot it to his truck, we held him there , called the warden, this was 2 months past deer season
and they told me they couldn't prove he shot it, so just call the state police
which we did and had him arrested for poaching property damage, and he was also DUI'd
but how much more red handed can a man be, and still they refused to come out and even look!
PA has one of the largest amounts of land to work with largest budgets to work with
and this is what we have in charge of our game
simply sad

[nomad_archer]

mrbb I agree. The ODNR officers I dealt with where always polite NY DCNR the same. PA has just been terrible the scary part is they have wide ranging powers of search and seizure with out warrants far beyond that of the state police if they suspect a game law violation. Though I am sure you have heard the horror stories. My answers are always the same. Nope didnt see anything, didnt shoot get anything... thank you bye.

[mrbb]

yes I agree, all my expeience with ODNR have been great as well as many many other staes
sad that we here in PA< where hunting is such a tradition still, and the shear numbers of hunters we have, and have to learn to code talk to wardens, based on horror stories that are sadly true far too often
I honestly hate calling them
but some times the hand is forsed and best wishes are hping this Time, they will do something good
only game warden I ever meet in PA that was great to deal with was the Old Gary Alt, and he never wrote a single citation in his career with the state
and in the end they blamed him for all the states lack of doingt there jobs
and he left
he was a great allround guy, had many a time spent with him over the yrs, from tagging along on trapping bearr, to even a few diners with him
and lots of seminars
that's one officer of the dozens I have delt with/, a sad sad state of afairs in our game dept!

[nomad_archer]

yes yes it is. The one good thing Gary did was usher in the antler restriction era and everyone I talk to even the grumpy old guys at deer camp agree that the sheer quality of the bucks we are seeing was unimaginable in the old days. I think the state has actually found a good balance with the doe season having it open on the first Saturday of rifle. This has allowed a few more deer to make it and I am seeing improved and stabilizing numbers up at my camp. There are days you see no deer but there are others where I saw 6-12 which is great considering a few years ago I may see 2-3 all archery and rifle season.

[mrbb]

yeah, Gary did step up and did the state deer a lot of good, sad, that it took so many yrs for them to do it, just think what we could have had for yrs and yrs if they did any real research into deer managment back in the hay days of our forest having tons of great browse
He also took a ton of blame and hate, that lead to him leaving, as even the officials that hired him to do what he did, left him out to take all the heat, they screwed him, for doing a great job
again sad
I am still in a doe all 2 weeks season zone, and I am also a place that has way too many deer still
I know up at my cabin, in north central PA, it was deer depleted pretty good from lack of self control on hunters parts, as well as the game dept for allowing so many deer to be taken up there
and its still on low numbers but better quality on whats there for sure
this state really needs to step up on timber harvesting, to help all wildlife, and heck, there budget too
sems now there looking hard at the asy money of oil wells, over quality forest managment for income
and that's sad too
we have so much mature timber fo them to work with, and so mocu gains for the wildlife if they did a good plan there!
Oh well
maybe in 20 yrs when hunter numbers are half what they are now and they need money to keep going they will timber then LOl

[Griz]

What a sad story. It makes no sence that the warden wouldn't do his job. The person who took that shot at that angle is not a hunter as I see a hunter. He is selfish and irresponsible. That warden should of done his job and looked into the matter. Maybe even getting that low life out of the woods. But instead he does nothing. As far as I am concerned the warden is no better than the poaching low life. I don't have and answer for you mrbb, it just makes no sence at all !! You did the right thing.

[nomad_archer]

Griz there is no good answer.

mrbb - There is a lot the PGC could do with habitat management but they choose not to. The best places I have hunted at my cabin are tree farms and lumber company land that is open to hunting and they have done active logging in the last 3-6 years. I wish the PGC would do that. The logging needs to be selective cut now clear cutting and it would make a world of difference... I do think though they finally go the doe seasons straightened out for most of the state so we have a sustainable herd were people see a few deer when they go out but I don't want to go back to the days of groups of 20-30 deer running together and maybe a spike mixed in somewhere.

[mrbb]

I agree, we don't need a million deer in PA, and the best lands to hunt in PA, are sad;y not game lands for sure
I again truely think its just sad that a state with such large amounts of land and the game it used to have(anyone remember that PA was a top 5 phesant state, and now there about gone and have been for many many yrs, yet the game dept, claims it wasn't there fault we lost them all, I asked them many times, then who's fault was it, as they were incharge of game in pA when it happened, I always get cut down for asking at meetings)
and yes I know for a fact there was many things the warden could have done if he so wanted to, he just didn't want to make any work for himself
over my yrs in pa, I have learned a lot about out game dept, nd things they have done and can do
and what the laws are
and sadly again, many wardens , just plain out right suck, I even know several that are and were BIG time poachers before getting the badge and still are with it
old saying I guess, best crooks make best cops, ???

and its these reasons and examples, that I have posted so many times about how poor our game dept is, compared to places like Ohio
you guys are spoiled ! lol

[Big_Holla]

Shameful all the way around. The warden doesn't deserve the badge he swore to uphold. The neighbor needs to have someone trespass on him. The 'hunter' deserves to be treated the same way he left that deer after trespassing and poaching IMO.

[213chrisp]

I dont have any experience with a warden in ohio with hunting because this is my first time hunting, but i have done bass tournaments with my father for years in a amature circuit and have ran acorss my fair share of ohio/kentucky/ten wardens, and most of the ones i run into are rude and acuse of fisherman for breaking rules or regulations quiet often.

one of the best stories was down in KY at cave run lake, father and myself was coming back to put boat on trailer and going threw a narrow section that requires to navigate threw boueys, there was a lund dual 150hp patrol boat in a no wake section and my father was doing about 65mph in the bass boat, i look over my shoulder and as we turn around a bend and tell him there coming to check us cause he was coming this way (when we past he was facing the other way) and there boat dock is on other end of lake, weve done nothing wrong, all 100% legal , but dont want to mess with there drama so my dad decides to outrun them in a safe manaer and were doing close to top speed (around 75-80mph) and i drop him off so he can get truck , as he backed in, i seen them round the corner hauling ass toward us and we pulled out of the water , had the boat tied up and was driving off before they made it to where we was at on land.

weve been inspected every spring down there for boater safety equipment and licenses and when our front passanger window has 8 stickers from ohio/kentucky fish and game warden seals of inspection on them you would think they would stop investigating the same boats over and over but it doesnt seem to stop them.

it amazes me what ive seen them do on the fishing side of things , so im sure ill have my fare share of moments with them in the woods too.

[mrbb]

well Big Holla
the hunter if you can call him that, doesn't ever hunt on land he owns or has permission to, the l;and he is always on, is land owned by a non resident of PA, and doesn't care to help me try to stop folks from trespassing on his or my lands, been down that road many a time with him trying, even offering him a few bucks to allow me to throw folks out on his side

so this hunter is always hunting private property he doesn't have rights to be on
and as for this game warden, well, sadly every warden I ever delt with in PA has been like this
Nomad, can even tell some stories on hios side of teh state too, sems like a state practice to do as little as needed, unless theer , just out to harass you in game lands parking lots, which I have seen so many times and been part of too!
they like easy money and spending time in opne spot I think, not so big on helping if they have to be called, from my experience

a few yrs back, and I posted it here, a sick fox was trying to bite my handi cap father in a wheel chair , every time he went outside, it would go after him, and they were watching my sisters little kids at the time, aso if the kids went outside, the fox went after them
they called the game dept, was old a officer would call them back,. mean time they called me, I live 60+ miles away
I drove up there to help
3 yrs go by, still no call back from the game dept(and I shoudl add the local warden lives about 3 miles from my parents)
I called again, asking when they would show up, as the dam fox was sick and still in the yard
I even asked if I could shoot it, and was told NO if I did they would charge me with an illegal kill
a few more hrs went by, still no call, back
and was told again, oficer would call me soon
mean time I got pissed and called a the local cops, as I knew many of them, ,. to maybe see if they could just come and shoot it
as what it it wanders away, after all it was a wild animal, and for sure was sick
they told me straight out they couldn't, as if they did the game dept would fine them too!
got to love how they work together LOL
so I called the game dept again, it was now about 6 hrs into this, and asked again if I could shoot it, since there warden seemed to be not responding, and I didn't want this thing to get away and maybe bite a neighbors kid or person
I was told doing so would again result in a fine, but they would contact the local warden again, and stress he call me ASAP
an hr went by, real spedy they are
and he finially told me to shoot it
BUT I had to hold it there for him to collect and have tested
it was in the freaking 90's that day hpt as hell, I shot it, left it lay right where it died
within an hr it was covered with fly's and what nots and already starting to stink
just lovely!
2 hrs goes by, I call warden again, asking where the hell he is, I don't have all day to be waiting on him
and he said, why you waiting on me???
Like WTF, all day I been waiting on him to call, or any one from the game dept to show up, then after hrs and several calls, after speaking with him, and being told to shoot it, and wait there for him to come
and he says why am I waiting on him??
would have loved to strangle him at that point
so I say how about coming and taking this sick dead critter
he says, well, I don't have time, just do with it what you want??
and hung up
I called him back and said what the ehll do you mean, you said it needed to be tested , due to acting like it did
and all he said was just throw it in the trash
I can tell you several other stories of my game dept and there all like this, piss poor help on there part
and I can also tell you, once they get there eye's on you, they will make your hunting and life in general a miserable as they can
and like Nomad said, here in PA, they have powers above even the state police
a pure shame, all that power and do so little good with it !
and I will say on record, most of the officers don't know there own rules
I shoudl know, when I sold there lic' they had me in court 3 yrs in a row, claiming I didn't follow there rules, last time, 100+ charges
and guess what, according to the judge, I was found not guilty of all charges every time, due to they didn't read there own rules??
all the proof I needed and need to see what and how they run there business
a pure shame1 and a sore note with me, due to I know how well this state could be if they stepped it up and just did there jobs!

[nomad_archer]

mrbb when I hunted PA with Ohio plates on my truck I had a bulls-eye on my back. Just about every time I walked out of the woods the freaking warden was waiting there to check my info. This was in several different hunting spots within a 10-15 mile area over several years. I guess he saw out of state plates and just wanted to find me doing something wrong. Since I moved back to PA I havnt been checked recently. I guess the in state plates buy me quick once over instead of a stake out to wait till I come out of the woods. Guess they dont have anything better to do then wait by one truck on the side of the road in archery season for several hours.

Now if I know they are there I will intentionally stay in the woods until they leave its not worth the hassle. One time the guy had me tied up for close to 2 hours with questions on the last day of archery season at lunch time. Bye the time he was done I didnt have enough time to get lunch and get back in the woods... Thanks for respecting my hunting experience and the hundreds of miles I drove to hunt....

[mrbb]

Nomad, I had one well actually ended up beng 3 wardens, hiding in the weds witing for me to come out of the woods, in archery season, on private lands too, parked over 1/2 mile from anyroad, thru 2 gates
first one hid in teh tall grass, and it was dark by the time I climbed down from my stand and made the 20 minute walk to the truck, about a 100 yrds from the truck I seen something move, lots of bears in the area, had me thinking, as it was low to the ground, , I kept walking, and when I got closer I seen it stand up and move, at this point I knew it wasn't a bear but a person??
so I yelled out who was there and no answer came
got closer and again yelled out, still no answer
as I got to about 10 yrds of the truck, this person jumped up and started running at me shinning a flash light in my eye;s
at that point I held my bow over my head planning to use it as a club, and started charging the SOB's
once he realized I was about to beat the hell out of him with my bow, this person turned and started running away from me, was like a cartoon, he was running around my truck and I was chasing him with my bow raised, and then he started yelling game warden g Game warden, game warden, at that point I was still pissed and didn't care, who this SOB was trying to charge me, and now running for dear life from me
when a truck come a flying up the dirt private road I was on(went to my friends house, he live 1/2 mile off a public road, hiw whole driveway was posted and again had gates to keep folks out)
they came a flying up the road like the dukes of hazzard, blue light a he was lucky he was faster than me or I might have killed him, as hell I didn't klnow who or what he was up to, doing what he did, I mean crap, I called out to him twice and he refued to answer me, and then when he charged me blinding me with his light, game on in my book
so they held me there asking to see my lic, and all that crap, I was 100 % legal, as I always am, I take pride in being and doing things right!
then they all gathered aboput and tried to tell me it was against the law to be in the woods with a weapon past legal shooting hrs
I had to explain to them that , that was incorect, and it wasn't easy, they wee trying to fine me for being in the woods after dark

I said how the heck can I be in my tree till shooting hrs end, and then be out of woods at same time??
what do I have to quit hunting 30 minutes before last legal light so I can be at my truck by then??
or hopw about this, you saying that the almost 1 million hunters that go into the woods opening day of rifle season in the dark are all breaking the law??
they finally said, OK we will just give you a verbal warning about this
I said Bullcrap, fine me, and we'll go to court if you think your right and I am wrong
they then said, OK we will just forget this happened then
I again still pissed said, you are dead wrong, read your rule book, and what the hell, in PA, I can legally hunt coyotes at night, so how does that play into your so called illegal to be in the wood after sun set???
no answer
at this poiny I asked them what the hell they were doing on private property, why the hell did the first guy open and l;eave all the gates open?? as they were closed when I came in as I closed them and since I could see from my stand, no trucks came up that drive way all day
dummy walking in opened them and left them open??
and why the hell they bothering me in the first place
they refused to answer, and just got in there truck and left!
another priceless experience with my game dept, up holding my opinion of them as being useless , well they do like to waste honest people's time it seems!

[nomad_archer]

mrbb seem like everyone has a story about them and none are positive. They forgot that respect is something earned not a given because you have a shiny badge, uniform, citation book and and a .45 on your hip.

[mrbb]

I agree 100 %
if they worked closer with private property owners and the general public
they'd have a lot more support
they need to stop looking at hunters in my opinon like we did something wrong and trying to de code it
and just working with us to make things better
good relationships would do wonders in this state
hope some day it gets better, but sadly see no changes in sight, but maybe worse one's
I also think its why so many farms and private lands that used to be open to the public closed
lack of working together
I know a lot of farmers, and the horror stories I hear from them about lack of help on crop damage and all the hoops there expected to jump thru , inorder to get anything done is a crime, not not sad to me
30 yrs ago, more farms were working with hunters than not
how things changed in a short persiod of time to me
This state should really look into allowing game wardens to issue trespassing fines
the amount of cash inflow the first few yrs would be HUGE, and could; do wonders for our wildlife
and I can say for sure, a lot of land owners would really appreciate the help, making good relationships
but??
all the powers they have,. and they cannot seem to do that, like 90% of other states game dept's do/have, makes me laugh!

[nomad_archer]

I agree tough all around. Wish they were better but what can you do