Odnr

[buckstalker17]

If you were in charge of the of odnr or any state for that matter what would you do different

[mrbb]

well my biggest grip here in PA, is, I wish they would enforc trespassing, they could make a ton of money, and then use that to improve habitat
as Habitat improvement is my second biggest grip here in PA
we have litteraly hundreds of thousands of acres of prime timberable lands
which any TRUE expert, can tell you the great improvements timbering done RIGHT can make to the habitat, and help all sorts of wildlife
I get so tried hearing game dept, cry about the money, when they are sitting on millions and millions of dollars of timber
that would not only solve the budget issue's, but also improve wildlife
so that would be my two first changes in PA if I could
thrid would be maybe allow more in put from land owners on deer numbers, andf less red tape if they wanted to do more thinning or less , pending on there lands

[nomad_archer]

I agree. My biggest gripe in pa is that the PA Legislature has partial control of the Game commission instead of the PA GC being a completely independent agency. Thus when the politicians feel like it they can change the game laws to suit there election needs regardless of the recommendations of the GC biologists.

Trespass in PA is enforced by the State Police or local police not the Game Wardens so its tough to get anyone on trespass and once you do its just a slap on the wrist. I wish though that PA would do some habitat improvement similar to what is done on ohio. In Ohio every public hunting property I went to for the most part has some type of crop planted for game etc. They used to do that in PA but not anymore.

[mrbb]

well Pa's other problem is we have so much ferdeal lands too,
and getting anything done on them is like a act of god required first!

many many other staes game depts, actually more than not, do enforce trespassing, and some have some very severe fines
calling the local police or state police here in PA is a joke, they all pass the buck, and tell you call someone else, been there done at about 50 times, and gave up!
take matters more into my own hands best I can now!
But sure would be nice if the state stepped in, and talk about income, I do not know a land owner here in Pa that doesn't have issue's, that owns more than 50 acre's , or in a deer heavy area!
I'd like to see check stations, and bigger fines if caucght poaching and or not reporting a kill too!
help clear up some of the bad apples maybe

[buckstalker17]

If I could change anything this is what id like to see
1) I would try to get all the check stations opened back up and do away with the phone and computer check in
2) get the state police and county sheriffs involved in checking tags on deer that they see like if he pulls in a gas station and see a deer in the bed of a truck and just ask them I need to see your tag. Or something like that
3) I would introduce a law like Texas has the buck needs to be a certain a size like needs to be like just say 12-13 inches inside with to help with the herd management
4) I'm prolly going to get burned on this one but I would make all this herd driving in gun seasons illegal there is nothing safe about that at all as how I see it.
This is just me not trying to get crucified just stating what I would like to see changed.

[mrbb]

well not bad Idea's
but I being a non resident, and having to drive a lot of miles across Ohio to get home, wouldn't want to be stopped and asked for a tag or proof of it, on the way home, , leave s the door open too much for harassment to me
But agree, a check station is the best way to get real numbers

and as for doing deer drives
again, that's a leagal way to hunt, and these days its done a lot lass than yrs back, I think
I have done deer drives for archery people , not just gun season
granted there more like small slow walks into an area where deer are hoping they leave past a hunter I have set up
no running shots or the likes
and doing this, I have managed to get several first time hunters kids, deer on every try to date
and many many states have antler restrictions, Pa being one
all for that too
on all bust kids
a kid should be allowed to shot any deer they want to get and keep the desire to hunt if you ask me!
But that's it, everyone else shoul;d be able to kill does for meat, and alow breeding bucks to be older and make healither deer, not just bigger racks!
been very lucky, of all the first timers I took (about 15 now) I have got them all a deer on there first outing with me, some due to one man drives
and rest due to food plots

[nomad_archer]

If I could change anything this is what id like to see
1) I would try to get all the check stations opened back up and do away with the phone and computer check in
2) get the state police and county sheriffs involved in checking tags on deer that they see like if he pulls in a gas station and see a deer in the bed of a truck and just ask them I need to see your tag. Or something like that
3) I would introduce a law like Texas has the buck needs to be a certain a size like needs to be like just say 12-13 inches inside with to help with the herd management



4) I'm prolly going to get burned on this one but I would make all this herd driving in gun seasons illegal there is nothing safe about that at all as how I see it.
This is just me not trying to get crucified just stating what I would like to see changed.

One thing PA got right was antler restrictions they do work. 3 on a side in some areas and 3 up in others (not including brows) It works I have been seeing more and larger bucks as a result of those restrictions. having something like 12-13" is impossible for the hunter to get right especially since most people couldn't eyeball 12-13".

As for deer driving people feel various ways about it. It can be done safe and I've done it in rifle season since I started hunting with family but everything is planned. Now we do silent drives with less then 8 people. Not the hoot'in holler'in 20 man drives

[nomad_archer]

well Pa's other problem is we have so much ferdeal lands too,
and getting anything done on them is like a act of god required first!


You got that right the Forest service is useless. The Allegheny National Forest by my camp is like walking through central park there is no under story period. It could use a good selective cut to open up the canopy and create some under growth, food and cover for wild life.

[buckstalker17]

I wouldn't think getting checked for a tag on your way back home be harassing if you are legal I'm sure most out of state hunters would have the deer 1/4 up and caped not all but most. But a game warden can stop any one allready so that issue would allways be there but most of the offenders usually live in the areas they hunt now if this was a real world scenario there would be a lot of details to work out for sure. As for the deer drive I know most put safety first no one gets in front of another and all that. There was a story I read about two years ago on the web I wish I could find it again but to sum it up there was a father his 3 sons and the dads brother went out and drove a field the had permission to hunt when they jumped a deer and shot it. But what they didn't realize is the was another father and son setting in a blind in the same Area and had permission also to hunt but to make a long story short the father was shot one time in the neck and was pronounced dead at the scene, just food for though I gave that story to my cousin and they no longer do drives. When its hunting season your never alone unless you are on your own property yea there is alllways going to be trespassers and that's the shame of it all i get permission if I don't I stay off

[nomad_archer]

In your news story if that deer would have stood up and walked that way as well that father and son in the blind could have been in harms way. Better question... did the blind have any orange on it or showing? When I hunt in a blind I have an orange attached to each corner. I dont use blinds in gun season. So this really doesnt sound like much of an issue with the deer drive at all just a deer got bumped which happens all the time and someone didnt obey the basic firearm saftey rules of knowing your target and backstop. It is tragic what happened but it wasnt really a drive either. One man going for a walk in a circle isnt really what I would call an organized drive. Plus banning drives would be almost impossible since according to your story if I went for a walk in a circle to say "warm up" or took the long way to meet my dad at his stand for lunch and happened to bump some deer in his direction then I would be doing a deer drive. What happened in your story was tragic but there were saftey rules that were not followed... if that is enough for you to not do deer drives anymore then thats your decision. Im pretty sure we are going to disagree on this but hey thats the fun part of this discussion.

[buckstalker17]

Yea it is a fun discussion and I get all your points as far as if they had orange or not On the blind I have no idea it was just a brief summery of a news article I read As far as drives I don't judge because people do them I all ways ask them not to judge me cause I don't be leave in doing them just to many safety concerns for me the week of gun season I just stay home just for the fact that there are to many hunters shooting hunters that week. Bow season is like 4 months in ohio so I give the gun hunters there week. Nothing against anyone ever.i just be leave there a diff between I man doing a spot and stalk and 7-10 guys walking a field in a row and start unloading on the first deer that jumps up and starts running Now I know before to long someone is gonna start beating me up on bird hunting. Lol

[Mightymet]

This is a great topic. I believe that a game warden or any law enforcement official can stop you and check for a tag if they see the harvested animal in your vehicle. I know of a few people that have been stopped near where I hunt for this reason.

I sadly also agree with the thought of restricting drives. Her is my reason. Although there really aren't many accidents due to this it can really mess up the deer movements for the rest of the season. What I'm afraid of is with the early muzzle loader season this will be the case. The property I hunt is like a bowling alley. It's about 600 feet wide and 3500+ feet deep. I typically sit at the back of the property. On either side of us the property is owned by the same person who lives out of state. He is around every couple of weekends or so. He gave us a real hard time when we approached him to ask permission to go on his property to track a deer in the event we needed to. He told us he only allows the neighbor ( an Amish guy) to hunt on his property. After a long and frustrating discussion he agreed to allow us to retrieve a deer if need be. When gun season came around we got up early and headed out to our respective stands. Myself and my two hunting partners got settled in and awaited what we thought was going to be a great day. When the sun came up we didn't realize that when we were told that only the Amish guy was allowed to hunt on either side of us that meant him and 15 of his buddies. We started hearing all kinds of noise. Next thing we knew it was world war three. Shots were going off everywhere. They were pushing hard and fast. These (exploitive) didn't even have orange vests on. Some of them had a strip of orange tape on there hats. It went on like that for a few hours. When the shooting let up we headed back to the camper and complained amongst ourselves and decided that they were probably all tagged out or at least dressing there kills so we went out for the evening. While sitting I heard some movement behind me. I looked around and couldn't see anything. Next thing I hear a shot. Then another then another. At this point I'm rooting for the deer. I yelling run deer run!

I guess I am probably via on this subject do to my experience but it has left a very bad taste. My second reason against driving I that a lot of inexperienced people go out during gun season. It's either there first time and got talked into it or they have only been out a few times. They are understandably excited and all thoughts if safety go out the window. They see a deer and just start blasting. This is what bothers me most. Even though they now require a safety course for new hunters its very easy to get around that.

Sorry for being long winded. Just my thoughts.


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[Mightymet]

I forgot. I would also like to see them allow us to use rifles in ohio. I understand the reasons they don't buy maybe they could come up with a way to have to qualify like they do for the urban area archery. Or at least open certain areas up for it.


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[buckstalker17]

I forgot. I would also like to see them allow us to use rifles in ohio. I understand the reasons they don't buy maybe they could come up with a way to have to qualify like they do for the urban area archery. Or at least open certain areas up for it.


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I never really knew why but ,Im sure they base the rifle law on population vs square miles or something like that. But for me I wouldn't want that at all and I would not change that law . Mrbb or someone who has more knowledge could prolly explain that a little better as far shooting and bullet logistics I have no experience with h/p rifles at all I would think with a rifle even though one may be a good marksman that bullet will pass through the animal a still travel a good ways ,but i have read that they say that a shotgun has more knockdown power at x distance than a h/p rifle but then you read another and they will say that the rifle is more efficient I don't know but one thing is for certain many will agree with you and nobody will agree wit me. Lol

[mrbb]

Well I could be wrong, but I think the most hunting accidents happen in turkey season
and not deer drives at all, or even gun season,when there are the most hunters in the woods too!
as for why Ohio has no rifle season, I am pretty sure its due to population areas, and well a lot of flat ground in many parts of it
even a 22 rifle bullet can travel over a mile, and most center fire rifle calibers well over 6 miles

and to be honest, I think no rilfes helps bucks get older, the more and farther people can see they will try to shoot
and ost don't have ther skills or brains to be shooting at distances they think they can