Are You Giong To Hunt Early ML Season

[hortontoter]

Just curious if any one plans to hunt the early ML season with a muzzleloader. I won't be doing that.

[buckstalker17]

I actually kinna for got all about it. Till just now I might blow the dust of the Thompson but with the challenge I might just keep low to the ground with the bow. Idk

[Strother23]

Nope. I plan to stick with the bow for the early ML season.

[blackbeard]

Bow 4 me also

[Whitetail Freak]

Idk yet but i think the no BUCKS that wkend is wrong i mean if ya m.l hunt then no bucks but if iam toten a bow why cant i shoot a buck god know this will be the time a 200in bucks wanders into 29yrds of me and beggs me to shoot em yall watch its gonna happen to me

[hortontoter]

I'll bet the no bucks rule will be broken many times in those two days. Just to easy to get away with it with the new check in system. If I hunt that weekend I'll carry the crossbow. But, I think I'd rather stay out of the woods then have my target buck walk by and not be able to take the shot. I normally refrain from shooting does on my property.

[no trespassing]

no...I want as many does on and around my property as possible through mid-Nov. Therefore, I plan to make my place nice and quiet. I might go down and make sure I have no sneekies coming in on me.

[nomad_archer]

I dislike early ML season in PA falls mid october just when archery is starting to get good. I dont own a ML and dont plan to either. I prefer using the bow.

[hortontoter]

I know the youth season has a very adverse effect on my property. No one hunts my property, but some hunt on a couple farms not far from me. I'm sure the early ML season will have a greater effect.

[mrbb]

well I am the odd ball out, a little here
I ids like the NO bucks part of it, but at the same time I do see the point of it
I mean if we, hunters take out more doe sooner , it SHOULD make for a stronger more active bucks ,
come rut time looking for a doe, as with few doe about, they will have to move more to find one
and then again the way I see it is, I know last few yrs, I found that I tend to pass on many doe's Hoping a buck will show up
so this kind of forces my hand into doing some doe kill's
and with the inline, it also means m,any times a deer is dropped in its tracks, no tracking needed, a fast in and out hunt for me
but I also see the draw backs, from being in PA where its been going on now for several yrs
the amount of cheaters is scary in my neck of the woods
as kids and seniors are also allowed to use rifles in this early season
and they is almost like a free pass to cheaters to poach, as the rifle shots go un noticed this week
and so many also sadly, shoot a buck, and then tag it with the archery tag
BUt cheaters will be cheaters one way or the other
the State game depts. in my eye's just need to step up and be better on there toe's, and here they don't even make an effort it seems to me

and the other side effect is, all the gun shot's do make many bucks go nocturnal here as well, its a trail cam pic's proven for me
its starts once the velvet comes off , and the cheaters start up, and then after this week, about 70% of my bucks don't show up anymore on cam in dayight
only good of this I see is less get killed and have a chance to age here where 2.5 yr old bucks are still rare, so a Plus of sosrts I guess???

[hortontoter]

Like everything it has its pros and cons. I'll make a better conclusion after it comes and goes.

[nomad_archer]

In PA we have had early ML season for quite awhile. The positive is it has been doe only and has fairly low participation at least in the big woods where I hunt. As a bonus the leaves are still on the trees and everything is still very thick which limits the range of the ML severely usually to under 50 yards. Add to that that there is very little deer movement during the day time in early October and you have a recipie for a low success rate at least where I hunt.

[no trespassing]

I do not personally understand the thought process around shooting a ton of does before rut. During the rut u hunt the doe groups. Those doe groups r what attracts roaming bucks to your property.

[mrbb]

I do not personally understand the thought process around shooting a ton of does before rut. During the rut u hunt the doe groups. Those doe groups r what attracts roaming bucks to your property.

the state I believe views it as a way to limit the amount of does that will get bred, thus lowering deer numbers, waiting till after the rut, it already late for the many does that get bred
the second deal again is, if there are less does before the rut, more bucks will be on the roam , Trying to find the remaining doe's
thus making them walk about more in search
or my 2 cents on why they do it!

[buckstalker17]

To be honest I don't think the early m/l season will make a lot of diff with the new check In process there a lot of folks hunting all season long with shot guns so till they come up with a better solution your going to hear a bunch of shots and the deer are going to be on there toes for sure. Just my 2cents.


just a few facts 09-10 261,314 harvested
10-11 239,475 harvested
11-12 219748 harvested

[nomad_archer]

To be honest I don't think the early m/l season will make a lot of diff with the new check In process there a lot of folks hunting all season long with shot guns so till they come up with a better solution your going to hear a bunch of shots and the deer are going to be on there toes for sure. Just my 2cents.


just a few facts 09-10 261,314 harvested
10-11 239,475 harvested
11-12 219748 harvested

The those ML kill numbers?

Early ML wont amount to much in the overall # of deer taken. The majority of deer harvested happen in gun season.

[hortontoter]

I'm pretty sure those are total harvest numbers, archery, shotgun, ML and youth season.

[buckstalker17]

HT is correct I posted the numbers because odnr said somewhere they were wondering why the harvest # dropped so much I be leave it to be the new check in system they have and I would be willing to bet that it will go down even more this year also they were thinking its due to the economy I think they are just not getting reported. they caught 3 guys last year in vinton county with 4 deer in the back of the truck they all had been taken with shotguns during archery season when asked why they didn't use a bow they stated we didn't think we would get caught useing shotguns.

[buckstalker17]

The those ML kill numbers?

Early ML wont amount to much in the overall # of deer taken. The majority of deer harvested happen in gun season.

Your rt there odnr says that archery season on the a average only account for about 20-22 % of the harvest numbers. When I look at it like this makes me glad i hide during the week of gun season.

43,749 archery
175,799. Gun season that's a lot of slugs flying around not counting misses and multiple shots shuu wee.

[nomad_archer]

buckstalker as for the new check-in system PA has been using either a web based or mail in a harvest report card checkin system I will tell you for a fact that they have no idea how many deer were harvested since many many dont turn in the report card. The PA game commission takes the number turned in and then adds some x number to it for the ones that were not turned in and reports a best guess. Pretty terrible system. The ODNR did away with the check stations probably to reduce overhead in some way.

[buckstalker17]

That's what I was saying earlier they have no clue and now you will really start to see the numbers drop as far as reported harvest # the numbers for archery and gun was just to show why I run and hide during shot gun season. As I don't shot gun hunt and haven't used a m/ l in 5years.

[mrbb]

I'll second that, here in PA< even the game dept claims its a wild guess as to how many are really killed every yr
yet they sell doe tags on so called" Science" ??
to keep numbers down in certain places, wonder how they get them magic numbers some yrs!!

they MAKE us check in bears however?, even pull a tooth and take a dna sample now a days
seems they value bears a lot more here in PA , than deer, which, to be honest, its the deer, and deer huntters that pay all the dam bills for them LOL
I wish we had check stations for deer
and I am sure many local business's wish so too, as I am sure it i8sed to generate a lot of extra cash flow for them, as I know every time I checked in a deer in Ohio, I ended up buying a bag or two of ice, then a cold beverage, and a snack or??
Plus I enjoyed seeing all the pic's of the bucks, many places used to take every yr and place on a wall in there stores,
A shame
I personally think, they just don't care as much as they once did, they rely on Computers too much to make life easier, rather than worry about being more accurate

[zachc]

I'll be honest, I might hit up some public land for early ML just to put some meat in the freezer. I'll save my private spots for the bow. As far as the check in system goes...I think it's crazy. Granted it seems like they're cracking down on poaching, but this just makes it so much easier for them. For real , you shoot an 8 pointer, you call and check it in legally, what's to say once you get it cut up you can't go shoot another 8 pointer and use the same tag?

[hortontoter]

I'll be honest, I might hit up some public land for early ML just to put some meat in the freezer. I'll save my private spots for the bow. As far as the check in system goes...I think it's crazy. Granted it seems like they're cracking down on poaching, but this just makes it so much easier for them. For real , you shoot an 8 pointer, you call and check it in legally, what's to say once you get it cut up you can't go shoot another 8 pointer and use the same tag?

Well if you field tagged the deer the tag would be filled out and then invalid. The much easier scenario, and one I'm sure is used, would be to call in your 8 point as an antlerless deer. This is the part that steams me. I've said for years I'd pay up to $250 for a second buck tag in Ohio. It costs more than that to go anywhere on an out of state hunt.

Lets be more realistic. I use landowner tags at my property. I just make my own tag, this opens the door for all kinds of cheating, if I wanted to do so. I could shoot a buck, make my tag stating it is a either sex tag, attach it to the antlers, take the buck home, check it in on my computer, process the meat, rip of the tag and light a match to it. Now I could make a new landowner tag stating the deer was an antlerless deer and unless the ODNR does a DNA test on my meat I'm good to go. Only catch is that I don't have the hard copy that shows ownership for the antlers if ever checked.

I'll admit I'm not going to do this, but I'm sure some folks will. If the state wants more revenue, they should offer a second or third buck tag at a premium price. Also as a landowner I think the landowner should only get one either sex and one antlerless tag for free. Any more should be bought at regular price.

[nomad_archer]

HT even more likely on private property is for people to shoot said buck take it to the barn and cut it up and repeat. Another one is people like to have there wives/daughters kids etc get a license and then they use the family members tag on the deer but never call it in. Looks legit in the field unless checked by the odnr.

[hortontoter]

You are right, these things have gone on for years. Back in the mid 70's I had a farm of 88 acres that only myself and a good friend could hunt on. For the first few years the hunting was pretty decent. Then the landowner rented a house on the property to a young fella. The following deer season the hunting seemed very slow. On the last day of the season I decided to do a loop drive for my buddy. When I got up by the landowners barn I ran across 4 or 5 sets of deer rib cages and some other bones. I knew right then what had happened to the deer. I played it cool and didn't approach the tenant. The next spring I went to groundhog hunt the field there. The tenant came out as I drove in. He asked what I was doing there. I told him I was going to hunt groundhogs. He asked me if I planned to shoot any big ones, and chuckled. I said I shoot them all, big or small. He said "I mean the big ones that grow antlers". I just smiled and said "It,s a little hot to shoot one today". He said if I got the chance to take one. He then led me inside the barn and showed me two quartered deer with the hide still on them in a freezer. I told him that was a good way to get some easy venison. I walked down the lane to the field and shot a couple of groundhogs. About noon I walked back up to my truck and he approached, asking if I saw any big ones. I said no and told him I was going to town for lunch. I went right to the police station and they contacted the GW. The GW showed up about an hour later and gave him citations and confiscated a couple of guns. The young fella knew I had blown the whistle on him and cussed me up and down. I simply told him some of us play by the rules and he should be more careful who he runs his mouth to. It was one of my more satisfying days afield.

[zachc]

So I think we all agree that this "check in" system helps poachers and to an extent hurts us real Hunters. I think it's all how you're taught when you get into hunting. Lucky for me, and my brothers, my dad got us into hunting at a pretty young age and taught us right...respect the land, respect the land owners, safety, laws, the list goes on and on. Now I'm able to pass all of this on to my little ones once they start hunting. I took my 3 year old out bow hunting last year for the first time, we didn't see anything but she loved it! Safe to say I'll be taking her out again this year!

[00buck]

yep........................ with my bow

[mrbb]

well I know I will not be liked for saying this, But I truely believe that just cause a person owns land, doesn't , no shouldn't mean they can make up a tag
I personally feel all that want to hunt should have to buy a lic and tag
having tags of all shapes and sizes, is part of a system that leads to failures and cheaters
NOT bashing anyone that use's land owner tags, oney is money I guess

just saying, that its an open window for troubles
and the fact that deer that visit private land, also live on public lands, or can, and vice versa
can also mean some folks don't chip in to the costs of things by not buying a lic! even if they only hunt theer lands, wildlife is NO one's!
having the means to own land , shouldn't mean a free tag in my book
I personally buy every lic and tag I can in PA, and I don't ever use or hunt many species, I look at it, as the fact I enjoy hunting, and its a small price to pay for the sport I enjoy, and if lic sales drop, so does support to wildlife and the power the game dept .'s have to keep hunting legal

as for buying a seond buck tag, I wish that was an option too, even a lottery for a second would be nice
But I also think , there is more than enought cheaters out there taking two now, giving them a excuse to be seen with a second buck, might make them kill even more
and by the way,
I believe the biggest deal with cheapers is simply,
folks/cheaters just kill a deer, no tag, butcher it up and move on, never even tagging it or trying to hide it
and its many times very well known who these folks are, and many turn a blind eye, hoping some day they get there due's, which many times never ever happens

[buckstalker17]

Well I be leave if someone pays there mortgage , pays there taxes on property that they own then I see no reason for purchasing a tag now I would say they need to purchase a lic. As of next season I will be buying 80 acres in s/ohio and I think that is one of the only few perks to owning you own property.

[mrbb]

yes, but what about the fact, that wildflife travels on your property as well as others properties?
how do the game on your land become your's
to kill just cause you bought some land?
how is it fair to others that cannot afford land/
people cry so much about folks leasing up lands, and these people that are dis liked so much typically are non residents, buy tags and lic and all that, and that money goes into paying taxes in a state they don't even live in
should lease people get a tag for free??
cause they spend money on lands to hunt??
see my point a little
the more funds going in to wildlife and hunting the better the future is for it to continue to be a sport all wlaks of life can afford to play in
or soon it will be a sport only the rich can enjoy!
come on a tag isn't that much ??
but when tens of thousands of people don' t buy one, that all adds up, and that loss of money can and would have maybe done a lot more good
after all if it wasn't for the state game dept, planting and managing deer, what would private land owners have to hunt??

again, NOT bashing folks that don't have to buy, just saying
is is that big a deal to pay a hair more to enjoy and help kep the future of hunting alove for the average person??
if they doubled the price of a lic here in my state, I would still gladly pay it
cause its somethng I really enjoy, and I get my moneys worth, and hope it helps save a dying sport
don't think hunting is dying, start looking at lic sales across the USA, ever state is down on numbers and dropping every yr!

[mrbb]

perks to owning your own land are many, from value, peace of mind of how and what you want to do on it, investment values alone are huge these days, God isn't making any more land
but wildlife isn't free if you high fence your land in, I say sure, if free range animals can access your land I say,
all hunters should be paying equal shares

[buckstalker17]

Well then if I should need a tag to hunt the property I own then the state should pick up the tab on all deer related accident since all the deer belong to the state and the insurance co should not have to pay out billions of dollars in claims and the state needs to pay the difference in premium increases when my rate goes up because someone else's deer accident run that by the state and see how that works

[mrbb]

well most insurance company's consided a deer collision, an act of God, and there is no increase for that?
or its how mine works any how, and others I know that hit a deer
what about all the non hunters?? what perks ,property damage should they be reinbursed for, if a deer or animal eats there shrubs?
thats a slippery slope
its also wht high fence operations can do as they want, cause its there deer
what about a guy that works to build a food plot, and do all sorts of QDM
and then a deer strools onto your property and you shoot it
as if you view the deer on private lands as personal deer and not state property, should he be able to send you a bill?
for shooting it
its a open door plan what you see, just cause you own the land
should you be allowed to kill all the deer then? or any animal that is on your property??
its hard for me to see the point of things not being equal
all hunters should have to buy a lic and tag per animal they plan to hunt , unless its a high fence area, where they have 100 % control over there animals
non res and res all should have to play by the same rules
teh more rules the more loop holes open up, and the more violations then , to try to enforce!
in a sport that is already very low on wardens, per hunter numbers
the percentage of hunting lic and tags sales all goes towards wildlife managment
so not chipping in, your not pulling the same weight, yet you can hunt any place in the state to use the benifets that money was spent on!
me and you might never see eye to eye on thing it seems LOl
but hey, at least were kepping the site active HAHA!

[buckstalker17]

Yea were not seeing eye to eye but also not making it personal. But any way I'm sure that is why they are allowed land owner tags I'm sure the government allows the land owner tags just why you stated they eat there crops destroy a garden depending on the size of a herd they can destroy a orchard so after all the damage the deer cost per year to land owners , business then they should still have to pay to hunt there property. i don't think that's fair at all and if it can up for vote to take away land owner tags I will vote for them I've bought tags for 10 years my cousin has never he hunts his land and so do I and It's never crossed my mind to say that's not fair.

[mrbb]

well not every state allows a land owner to go tag less?

[buckstalker17]

well not every state allows a land owner to go tag less?

That sounded like a t shirt commercial. Bahahahahba or did you mean topples , just kidding

[hortontoter]

Good points by both of you. I think last two years was the first years I didn't buy a deer tag. I was hunting one buck and knew I was going to only hunt on my property. Every year prior to that I've purchased tags. I've owned my property since the spring of 2004, but normally hunt other properties as well. I've bought a license every year since 1968, and most of those years bought some tags, duck stamps and lots of ammunition etc.

One thing I've never figured out is what amount of land constitutes a landowner. Can a guy own one acre and use a landowner tag?

[buckstalker17]

I would Believe its more of location of the property than acreage my brother only has a 1/2 acre in circleville and he's allowed landowner tags but if his property was 1 mile down the road then would not be allowed a tag due to city ordinance if you are applying for a nuisance permit then i think they base that off the amount of acreage you own as to how many you could remove.

[00buck]

i always thought it had to be more then 5 ac but i may be wrong if so i have been doing this wrong the hole time and you have to shoot the deer on your land and a 1/2 ac is pretty small i dunno maybe i am wrong thinking like this but how many deer has your brother killed on it

[buckstalker17]

His 2 sons have killed a couple a piece over the years there is three apple trees and 2 pear trees so they frequent his yard often so if he's wrong or your wrong maybe I can give him your # and you two can figure it out.

[ManOfTheFall]

Well, seeing that I only hunt with a bow I will definitely be using a ML. I also believe this is one of the dumbest rules the ODNR has come up with.