OVER 40 YARDS

[buckstalker17]

CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THAT IT IS UNETHICAL TO SHOOT OVER 40 YARDS WITH A BOW AND ARROW ??

[nomad_archer]

Not sure I cant answer that question. My personal limit is 50 yards with clear shooting because after 50 I feel that my accuracy isnt as consistent as I feel it should be to take a shot on game. I've never had to shoot that far my personal farthest shot on game with my bow was 38ish yards.

[buckstalker17]

i practice up to 70 yards now i know you never going to get a shot off in the woods at that range . but i have read in here that it is unethical I'm just trying to find out why that is but i haven't herd any reason why i just know if you are hunting any open ranges if you don't have a 60-70 yard shot in your back pocket you might be in for a long trip.....

[zachc]

I agree, I don't see why an over 40 yard shot is unethical. I think that as long as you practice for 40-50 yard shots and you are consistent with you're shots then you should be fine.

[Stonegod]

They take elk, mulies and pronghorn at 60-70yds out west all the time....it's not for me, but it's done all the time. For someone who shoots an older xbow or vertical bow with less power than modern gear......shooting at thoughs longer ranges may be considered unethical....but that doesn't make it unethical for everyone.....for the record my limit is 20yds.

[Redcloud]

The way I look at it, if your equipment is good enough to shoot that far and your proficient out to ranges past 40 yards then go for it. If your FPS and KE are enough to make a killing shot at the given distance I don't see an issue with it. I will not go past the 40 yard mark but that's just me and staying in my comfort zone.

[hortontoter]

Good God, the statement I made was a joke. I give up.

[buckstalker17]

Good God, the statement I made was a joke. I give up.

hahaha i know it was a joke buddy just trying to keep it going dont be mad

[buckstalker17]

what would you consider a unethical shot just to keep this thread going and to not start another

[nomad_archer]

What I consider unethical shots are ones that can happen at any distance its really the circumstances of the shot that would make it unethical. Bad shots happen but one were you are forcing a shot through brush or taking very poor angle shots on deer that is where ethics of the shot comes in for me. As long as people stay within the capabilities of their abilities, equipment and are taking high percentage shots on deer then I really don't mind how far they are shooting.

[Big_Holla]

What I consider unethical shots are ones that can happen at any distance its really the circumstances of the shot that would make it unethical. Bad shots happen but one were you are forcing a shot through brush or taking very poor angle shots on deer that is where ethics of the shot comes in for me. As long as people stay within the capabilities of their abilities, equipment and are taking high percentage shots on deer then I really don't mind how far they are shooting.

Ditto..........

[mrbb]

What I consider unethical shots are ones that can happen at any distance its really the circumstances of the shot that would make it unethical. Bad shots happen but one were you are forcing a shot through brush or taking very poor angle shots on deer that is where ethics of the shot comes in for me. As long as people stay within the capabilities of their abilities, equipment and are taking high percentage shots on deer then I really don't mind how far they are shooting.

well said

BUt unethical is a strong word
I personally don't shoot past 40 yrds, prefer under 30 yrds to be honest
I think and believe the reason many get there feathers ruffled on shots past 40 yrds is due to simple odds of something going wrong greatly increases
its is and will always be a range with any weapon, that odds tilt the other way
and with archery gear, it happens a ton faster than with a say a rifle
with archery gear you have so many things to worry about, from the FACT a deer can hear an arrow coming, the amount of time for the arrow to get to the deer, teh deer can do so many things, the wind, yes wind can do many things to its flight , thus effecting where it goes, even with the best aiming going on/gear(ask anyone who shoots far with rifles what wind can do)
so staying under "X" range increases your odds, no matter your skill lever
its just facts,
time, +wind/elements, +animal reactions, the farther the shot, the higher the odds for something to go wrong
far too many people these days go off of paper and TV and mag's on what a bow/weapon can do
and sadly like it or not, there are way too many folks that see something done on TV and believe they can do it , without the time or practice to learn the how's and in's and out's of doing it
and then there comes down to the ethical/unethical side of it
how many truely know there limits, how many truely stop, if a animal is just outside of them, or how many take the shop hoping the just CAN make it
I been in this sport a lot longer than many on this site, been in the outdoors business a LONG time, owned a gun store for yrs(sold archery gear too)
and trust me, the stories I hear and heard, more cross the line of there limits than you think
thus again, why so many feel strongly about why past 40 yrds is not so great an idea for most bow hunters
heck your car/truck more than likely goes a 100 mph, does it mean its safe to drive it that fast every where?? do most folks even folks that have been driving for 20+ yrs accident free, have the skills to drive it that fast all over, do conditions allow for speeds like that all the time??
NO
same with archery gear, just cause its "X" fast, and you can shoot bulleyes at 80 yrds, does it mean you should? you can in all conditions
just a silly example, but many folks think again just cause on paper its "X" fast, and flat, they can kill at any range without all the hard work to learn how
and lets be honest, being a 1,000 yrd shooter fr yrs and yrs
you will always miss more at distance than at up close, that's fact's, any pro will swear by, and I know several pro 1,000 yrd shooters
and I didn't even hit on the percentage of less energy an arrow/bullet makes
that's a whole different and long debate
I don't bash folks that make long shots, but know again for fact, even the boys out west, they miss a lot more than guys shooting at 30 yrds do, due to the small things that get them off target, not there shooting skills, (well some times its that), its the un controlable things , and again they increase at range with ALL weapons!
food for thought lets say!

[buckstalker17]

I am going out west to bow hunt this year that is way I'm praticing 70 yard shots and when I mean practice I will go out when it rainy and windy to see how it reacts and so I can have at least what kind of reaction I have so that I can have a idea on what adjustments to make. Now I know I can't even begin to know what the conditions would be so I'm Preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.

[mrbb]

well shooting/practicing in different types of conditions is a help for sure, and I want to state, I am not being a jerk by saying this
BUT if you don't have any way to measure and track conditions, like wind speeds, your just guessing what they are, and its VERY hard to gain data and experience from guessing
like if your trying to learn how much drift your getting at "X" wind speeds, and at "X" range
not knowing numbers, your never going to have information that is correct
and reading the wind is a skill that , NO is an Art, that takes a lot of time to get even close to right
and that is also why shooting past 40 yards gets and can be iffy
as the difference between a 10-20-30 mph wind speed, and drift, can be a HUGE Difference at 50-60-70 yrds, and yes even at 40 yrds, hell even at 30 if strong enough winds
I have hunted out west several times, and I kept my shot at under 40 yrds, MY choice, other can and do shoot farther, and that's between them and there standards
But I know for a fact, there are more misses at distance than up close
I recently watched a TV hunting show with a very well known artchery shooter, who missed 3 deeer at 50-65 yrds in a row, before killing one, and thats just what they showed on TV, and this was in one day
I am glad they were clean misses, but if your mising a whole deer at any range, I say you need to question what your doing, a whole deer is a pretty big target, and yes I know the kill zone we aim for isn't a whole deer, its much smaller
just saying
to shoot far, and be giving it 100% having all tools you can have to make the best of it, a wind meter, a lazer range finder, and taking the time to really look things over, and shooting only at calm un alert animals
, and again the practice to make them 10 out of 10 times on the target range
is what the goal should be, any thing else , to me is not going at it right
NOT saying it cannot be done, , but in life there is right and wrong ways of doing things
and again, WHAT range you feel is too far to shoot, is up to the hunter/shooter
I am not bashing anyone that wants to shoot far, I've done it before, but don't anymore,
well not at critters anymore, still like punching paper far out there

[Strother23]

This is a tricky question. There are some many different scenario's about shooting at long distances and everyone skill set and equipment is different. Hard to put a general number on it. I personal practice out to 50 yards and im confident. But hunting I hanvt shot past 32yds yet and don't like to unless last resort.

[buckstalker17]

I have not only been practicing the shot out to 70 yards I've been trying different weight and length shafts and and tip weight to get max penetration I'm almost where I want to be I'm going to try and get a little more of a FOC to about 11% and see how that will work.

[00buck]

Ditto..........


What I consider unethical shots are ones that can happen at any distance its really the circumstances of the shot that would make it unethical. Bad shots happen but one were you are forcing a shot through brush or taking very poor angle shots on deer that is where ethics of the shot comes in for me. As long as people stay within the capabilities of their abilities, equipment and are taking high percentage shots on deer then I really don't mind how far they are shooting.


I agree with you low percentage shots are not the way to go you have to remember to respect the animal you are shooting also you want a quick death not a slow death and high percentage make recovery alot easier

[buckstalker17]

I agree with you low percentage shots are not the way to go you have to remember to respect the animal you are shooting also you want a quick death not a slow death and high percentage make recovery alot easier

What are you considering a low percentage shot vs high percentage shot ?

[nomad_archer]

I consider the straight away, head on, quartering too and the straight down vertical tree stand shot to be low percentage shots since the vitals are small from those angles and are protected by lots of bone in most cases.. I personally don't like shooting at moving animals and all the animals I have shot at have stopped for me.

[mrbb]

What are you considering a low percentage shot vs high percentage shot ?

I consider any shot at a very alert deer with archery tackle to be high risk, and I also think far shots are high ricks
even if they are made
the factors get higher, its not an opinion, its fact, takes Time for an arrow to travel far, and it looses energy with distance, and the biggest factor is an animal can simply just move
how far is high rick,?? I have my idea, and I am sure others have there's
leaving it at that!
being part of a long range hunting video series for a few yrs, I really learned to appreciate a close shot, lets say

[00buck]

I consider the straight away, head on, quartering too and the straight down vertical tree stand shot to be low percentage shots since the vitals are small from those angles and are protected by lots of bone in most cases.. I personally don't like shooting at moving animals and all the animals I have shot at have stopped for me.
this about sums it up at least with archery equipment

[hortontoter]

But hunting I hanvt shot past 32yds yet and don't like to unless last resort.

I'd resort to not shooting. Not picking on you, but how can taking a shot you really don't feel confident with be a last resort. Just trying to understand your thought process.

[mrbb]

I'd resort to not shooting. Not picking on you, but how can taking a shot you really don't feel confident with be a last resort. Just trying to understand your thought process.

well I might answer this a little
I personally don't want to shoot past 30 yrds
BUT under the right circumstances , a very calm deer, a solid rest, and the fact I do practice out to 50 yrds
I would take a 40 yrds shot(not 50)
so lets say my target deer is at 40 yrds in the above condition, and towards the last few days of the season, AKA last resort, I Might take that 40 yrds shot, even if I prefer a closer one and that would be a last resort, as that would mean so far he out witted me for 95% of of my archery season, so I might take the shot again, MIGHT

and that would be a sort of a last resort situation, in my book LOL ??

[Strother23]

Well I am comfortable shooting out to 50yds. I practice at that distance often. I know shooting at a deer is different than practice. I say last resort because I dont prefer a long shot doesn't mean I'm not comfortable shooting it. If it's an iffy shot I wouldn't shoot but if I have my target buck at 40-50yds and it's a clear shot I would def shoot. Just havnt encountered that situation yet.

[hortontoter]

Thanks for your insight.

[buckstalker17]

mrbb dont take this the wrong way but man you are next to impossible to follow . i have no last resort scenario to give you im not sure if you have ever spent the time to properly set up a arrow or not but if the arrow has the proper FOC % and spend a little time finding out how much weight you can put on the tip and stay within your spine range ,you can shoot the same groups at 5 yards as you can at 70 with enough weight in the tip it will hold the energy in the tip to keep the momentum and the vans will its job to keep the tail on the same plane as the tip so to me a long range shot is never a high risk shot

[mrbb]

mrbb dont take this the wrong way but man you are next to impossible to follow . i have no last resort scenario to give you im not sure if you have ever spent the time to properly set up a arrow or not but if the arrow has the proper FOC % and spend a little time finding out how much weight you can put on the tip and stay within your spine range ,you can shoot the same groups at 5 yards as you can at 70 with enough weight in the tip it will hold the energy in the tip to keep the momentum and the vans will its job to keep the tail on the same plane as the tip so to me a long range shot is never a high risk shot

well if what you are saying is true, then your arow must never slow down, cause at some point in space and time, an arrow will NOT hold enough energy to kill
I have lots of experience with many weapons at long range
and again, I am not bashing anyone that wishes to shoot far, I just don't
its plain and simple laws of physic's, farther you go, more variables to contend with, that's a fact
with ANY weapon, unless it has guidance control
not looking to start a fight with you, or anyone else on the subject
you asked for opinions and I gave examples, as well as my opinion, as you asked for???
am I wrong??

[buckstalker17]

well if what you are saying is true, then your arow must never slow down, cause at some point in space and time, an arrow will NOT hold enough energy to kill
I have lots of experience with many weapons at long range
and again, I am not bashing anyone that wishes to shoot far, I just don't
its plain and simple laws of physic's, farther you go, more variables to contend with, that's a fact
with ANY weapon, unless it has guidance control
not looking to start a fight with you, or anyone else on the subject
you asked for opinions and I gave examples, as well as my opinion, as you asked for???
am I wrong??
im not even trying to pick a fight, i just cant beleave that people think at 70 yards you can not carry enough momentum to effectily kill a deer, i cant throw a pebble 70 yards but i can throw a baseball 70 yards we are not talking 200 yards

[mrbb]

well I never said you couldn't kill a deer at 70 yrds with an arrow, I know its been done, so its possible for sure
does an arrow have less KE at 70 than it does at 40 yrds, 100% sure of that too
which just leave smaller room for errors, which then equates to lower odds of a clean kill
a SHARP arrow with proper speed and KE at 10 yrds will kill just as one with enough at 100 yrds will if in the right place and again enough KE and speed

My point is this, its real simply
a rifle can kill a LOT farther than a BOW, and most 99.9 % of people will shoot a rifle off hand more accurate at 50 yrds than at 100 yrds, even though a rifle can kill at Alot farther(pending caliber of course) than a100 yrds
but few people have the ability to shoot off hand at 100 yrds never mind past that
its because of the fact small movements make BIG differenece's as range increase, NO matter the weapon
BUt with archery gear, its even worse, due to there are many more variables that come into play a LOT sooner
and yes a rifle to a bow is apples to oranges
BUT the basic's to long range with either are more the same than different
it take skills, practoce and tools to know what conditions are, and not just guess's
I have shot 7 inch groups at a 1,000 yrds(had some group close to 2 inches, and had a flyer open it up)
so I do know a little about long range work
what effects a high power rifle bullet at 500-to a 1,00+ yrds is what effects a arow at closer ranges, due to law's of graviety and resistance
and other factors
and AGAIN, I am NOT telling anyone they cannot kill at 50-60-70-80 yrds if they so choose to
but to be honest, its a lower odds deal, like it or not, just more factors involved, no way about that, soory facts
and again, IF you want to shoot far, go ahead, not stopping you in any way shope or form, your will and decision to say when far is far enough
for me its 40 yrds with a bow, that's my decision, what I am comfortable with, and try my best to get a lot closer for my shots
if you really are willing to learn and take ALL the steps involved in being proficient , more power to you, and hope you do if you choose to shoot far at live critters
that's all I am saying, this is beating a dead horse I believe
if you want more, of my opinions and knowledge PM me!

[buckstalker17]

I will be sure to do that.

[nomad_archer]

this about sums it up at least with archery equipment

Yep when it comes to using shotguns and rifles some of those are fine shots to take. Some may damage significant amounts of meat but otherwise they are legitimate shots.

[nomad_archer]

When it comes to the really long distances stuff like the 70-80 yard shots. Since I spent some time shooting field archery so the 80 yard shot was part of a routine shoot. If you compared the differences on how far an arrow penetrated at 20 yards vrs 40 yards vs say 80 yards that was enough to confidence me that 50 yards was the max for me on game since at the longer shots my equipment didn't produce the KE based on my short 27" draw length and 62# draw weight. The decision though about what is someones max yardage is a personal decision hopefully based on real world practice.

On a side note mrbb knows is stuff on long range rifles since 1000 yard rifle is similar to the 100 yard bow shot. When you get down to it the same factors come in to play between the two. Adjustments for wind and gravity which is a known adjustment since it is constant. You set that adjustment on your sight or scope but in both scenrio's it involves compensating for several feet of drop at those yardages which is pretty crazy. Watching the arch of an arrow at 80-100 yards it is amazing how high above level the arrow travels to hit the target at those distances.

[Toke2]

If someone can get the same groupings at 70yds, as they can at 15yds..... then they should be making a living shooting. I would pay for lessons from that person.

If not, well there is your answer. When the odds of "wounding shot" versus a " kill shot" start increasing exponentially - then you have to decide where on the scale you drop the "ethical" pin. To each his own.

[buckstalker17]

When it comes to the really long distances stuff like the 70-80 yard shots. Since I spent some time shooting field archery so the 80 yard shot was part of a routine shoot. If you compared the differences on how far an arrow penetrated at 20 yards vrs 40 yards vs say 80 yards that was enough to confidence me that 50 yards was the max for me on game since at the longer shots my equipment didn't produce the KE based on my short 27" draw length and 62# draw weight. The decision though about what is someones max yardage is a personal decision hopefully based on real world practice.

On a side note mrbb knows is stuff on long range rifles since 1000 yard rifle is similar to the 100 yard bow shot. When you get down to it the same factors come in to play between the two. Adjustments for wind and gravity which is a known adjustment since it is constant. You set that adjustment on your sight or scope but in both scenrio's it involves compensating for several feet of drop at those yardages which is pretty crazy. Watching the arch of an arrow at 80-100 yards it is amazing how high above level the arrow travels to hit the target at those distances.

I don't be leave shooting a bow @70 and shooting a rifle at a 1000 yards are even in the same realm

[nomad_archer]

I said the 100 yard bow shot and the 1000 yard rifle shot are in the same realm based on what you need to consider for environment wind and drop and the skill to shoot those distances well. A 10 or 15 mph cross wind at 100 yards with a bow with cause your arrow to drift significantly just as the same wind with cause a bullet to drift substantially at 1000 yards. The shots require different skill sets but that same environmental factors come into play.

so in the case your are talking about shooting a bow at 70 yards at a target would be like taking a 700 yard rifle shot at a target its possible and happens quite often out west but you need to know what you are doing and take into account the wind etc. So a under that idea a 50 yard bow shot takes some skill but most semi skilled archers have not problem taking that shot and doing reasonably well. Same scenario applies for say a 500 yard shot most semi skilled shooters would be able to do reasonably well at that distance with the right equipment and rest.

So I guess the point I am trying to make is as range increases with a bow or rifle the more important the environmental factors become especially the wind and the accuracy of your sight adjustment for drop as well as the tuning of your bow and your shooting form.

[buckstalker17]

I get what your saying and I am going out west to hunt this year that is why I'm doing all this. But what I'm getting at is a rifle will use a100% of its energy when it's fired and a bow will not that is a fact the more energy you transfer to the arrow the more efficient it will be that's why you will see people who shot a deer at 20 yards and the the arrow didn't even pass through. They are not getting enough energy transfer. And that is a fact also. And if you don't be leave what I'm saying. Try this experiment take the field tip you are using say 100gn then put on a 150 or 185 on the tip at 20 yards and gage for your self the 185 will penetrate deeper why cause the heavier arrow had more energy.

[mrbb]

buckstalker17, I have a question for you, and I am NOT busting ass
do you know your exact arow speeds at 50-60-70 yrds, have you shot your arrows through a chrono?
I would be very courious to know what they are, not bashing again, just wondering what they are

[buckstalker17]

No sir it would stand to reason that no one would try it. Same as no one knows exactly how fast a bullet is going at a 1000 yards. Now I know it could be broken down into some kind of math problem

[mrbb]

well I beg to differ, I have shot my arrows 20 ytrs ago through a chrono at 50-60 yrds, so its very possible
and I have shot my bullets thru one at 1000 yrds
takes building a stong enough protection box with rifle, but a TON easier with a arrow
if your as accurate enought to shoot small groups at "X" range why cannot you shoot thru a chrono??
and then KNOW facts about what your arrow is capable of?? and not be guessing?
just an honest question for you

[nomad_archer]

I get what your saying and I am going out west to hunt this year that is why I'm doing all this. But what I'm getting at is a rifle will use a100% of its energy when it's fired and a bow will not that is a fact the more energy you transfer to the arrow the more efficient it will be that's why you will see people who shot a deer at 20 yards and the the arrow didn't even pass through. They are not getting enough energy transfer. And that is a fact also. And if you don't be leave what I'm saying. Try this experiment take the field tip you are using say 100gn then put on a 150 or 185 on the tip at 20 yards and gage for your self the 185 will penetrate deeper why cause the heavier arrow had more energy.

Of course the heavier arrow with penetrate farther since it has more KE. KE is a function of mass and speed so increase either of those and you have more KE decrease either and you lose KE. So Im not sure what point you are trying to make is. I understand you are going out west and are practicing long shots should the need arise. You are practicing in all different environments and conditions so you know what the arrow will most likely do if you encounter a similar situation out west. I'm glad you are practicing and I hope you get the buck of a life time out there.

[buckstalker17]

Mrbb I may not allways under stand what you are saying but I'm going to have to call bBS on this one at 50-60 that arrow is not flying flat it has an arc to it you have to dunk it like a basket ball so I say naaaa. Sorry man.

[mrbb]

I remember long ago the reason so many gun hunters switched to bows was for the added challange of getting close to game to kill them
Its amazing to me, that some of the for fathers of archery like Frd bear was alble to kill anything, be it out west or up in AK, taking shots only at close range
Imagine that, how hunting skills forceeded the need to shoot far with an arrow
I think its a sad hunting future where hunting skills are replaced buy shooting skills
as they are two totally different things in my eye;s
and again, I AM NOT bashing folks who choose to shoot far, its there right and choice
I was once young and dumb, and took chances I don't now, I learned from time afield, information I earned and could prove, and info I read and took to heart, many times to later on be proven wrong LOL
that's how life is, as tend to get smarter as we age, and experience is gained
Good luck out west, I too hope you kill a big of your dreams, its a wonderful place to hunt, enjoyed all my trips out there that's for sure!

[mrbb]

Mrbb I may not allways under stand what you are saying but I'm going to have to call bBS on this one at 50-60 that arrow is not flying flat it has an arc to it you have to dunk it like a basket ball so I say naaaa. Sorry man.

all an arrow as to do it pass thru a chrono to be read, in the few inches the arc is nothing it cannot read
maybe you don't how how a chrono works?
or if your saying the arc of your arrows is so great at 50 yrd, then why are you shooting at 70?? they must be straigh down then?/ LOL
there is a difference between knwoing and guessing
and yes there are formulas to figure out speeds of all things, as long as you know correct info from the start
and its why so much info is out there on bullets, cause true long range folks take the time to learn FACTS, and no guess's on what there equipment can so, and enven with it all, shooting far is still a gamble
and there is TONS more data on bullets than arrows afar, ever wonder why that is??

this is my last post here
best of luck to you, may all your arrows fly true for you!

[buckstalker17]

Yea we need to squash this dag gon hortontotor you stared this. Lol.

[BIGHUNTOH]

Ok here's my take on it.. Bow shoots 300fps, at 70 yards that's 0.7 seconds for the arrow to reach the deer. Speed of sound is 1,126fps at 68 degrees, thats 0.1865 seconds for sound to reach deer. So subtract the two and get 0.5135 seconds for a deer to react to that sound before the arrows hits him. I think a deer can definitely move at least a foot within a half second. There is also many other variables to consider, wind speed, temperature, time of season etc.

[buckstalker17]

Hmm then I can put say db meter at 70 yards and Rec with a video cam and see with the decibel are when the sound reaches at 70 yards I fell they are pretty low. I think I might Check in on this. Thanks for the input.

[nomad_archer]

I think the sound of the bow going off will result in very little sound. However the sound of the arrow/broadhead coming would be much louder.

[buckstalker17]

I'm glad he posted that I'm gonna find me a db meter and just see and I would like to know how many dec there are before impact.

[nomad_archer]

Let us know the results

[hortontoter]

Blame it on me, I can take it. I have a warped frame of mind when it comes to all things concerning hunting. Bucks with broken antlers walk, I only hunt stands when the wind is in my face. I am changing though, my maximun shooting distance with my crossbow has always been 20 yards. After moving my stand and doing some yardage checking I may have to shoot up to 23 yards this season. I'll make this decision after shooting at the 23 yard distance and seeing how things go. I may have to sight in dead on at 21 yards instead of my preferred 19 yards. Call me anal, warped or just outright ridiculous, they all fit.

[buckstalker17]

Lol your crazy ill give you that

[buckstalker17]

all an arrow as to do it pass thru a chrono to be read, in the few inches the arc is nothing it cannot read
maybe you don't how how a chrono works?
or if your saying the arc of your arrows is so great at 50 yrd, then why are you shooting at 70?? they must be straigh down then?/ LOL
there is a difference between knwoing and guessing
and yes there are formulas to figure out speeds of all things, as long as you know correct info from the start
and its why so much info is out there on bullets, cause true long range folks take the time to learn FACTS, and no guess's on what there equipment can so, and enven with it all, shooting far is still a gamble
and there is TONS more data on bullets than arrows afar, ever wonder why that is??

this is my last post here
best of luck to you, may all your arrows fly true for you!
I am man enough to admit I am wrong I did a little research and found that people are crazy enough to shoot a arrow at a 200.00 dollar chronograph but I but I also found out with the speed my bow shoots and arrow weight about 58 pounds of k/e at 60 yards so there is more than enough energy to blow through a bull elk at 70-80 yards so my apologies for calling b/s.

[Whitetail Freak]

I have a 20 ,30,40,50&60 yrd pin and i shoot at them distances all spring thur fall long i know where my arrow impacts at them distances and if iam on a field edge n a deer walks with in 60 yrds yall can bet if i have a clear shot n a calm breeze iam squezing the release and watchen my lumennock go into the boiler room . Call me unethical yes but i have held off on shots in public land waiting for another 10yrds closer somethi g goes wrong deer takes off or wanders other direction and ya have a deer less season well any extra meat i can provide for my family is less i have to buy outta pocket so call me what ya want but i will take a 60 yrd shot if conditions are rite if there not ill hold off