Bow Tuning - Who Do YOU Trust?

[Big_Holla]

OK, topic of the week is (seems to be) Bow Tuning.....you can remain anonymous if you would like and vote or you can add your comments.

The question is: Your bow and it's tuning who have you trusted to do it in the past? Or if you prefer, who will you trust the next time you need something done??

Let's keep it clean and remember, we all will not see everything the same way in life!!

[Big_Holla]

For me I have learned how to do some steps in tuning over the years but often find myself, when the need arises, to head to my local archery shop for help and/or advice. I don't know enough about the actual tuning of a bow nor do I have the equipment to be able to actually do any of the work other than maybe a rest adjustment.

[buckstalker17]

this smells like a setup. Haha I've learned to tune my bow by watching and paying attention to what some one is trying to teach me and I still have to go to a proshop to have some things done like tying in a peep I could not tie a knot in a shoe string but I cut and weight my arrows I do my own paper tune and I've ordered a bow press so I can change my own stings and cams Having said that there a lot of guys and gals on here and out in the shooting world that would love to pass on the knowledge they have if you are willing to hear what they have to say I've had a guy at a shoot come up to me and tell me would you mind if I show you something I said sure then on the back half of the Vegas spot shoot I picked up 4x and about 25 points. People want teach and educate I be leave that's why we're hear that's just my opinion

[mrbb]

well being I started off bow hunting back in the 1980's, long before both many folks knew a ton about so called TUNING< and well, long before I even knew what that meants
plus I also started shooting bows without sights for many many yrs
when I got smarter, or maybe more into bow hunting, I started to read all I could, and talk to people I "THOUGHT" knew more than me
I got lucky I guess, on several levels, NOT Bragging, but I was very good at instinctive shooting, and took to sighst very easy, and was very accurate, and I became friends with a pro shooter, who then opened up his own shop, and I got to spend some time with him in the shop on a regular basis
letting him help me do all my bows from about mid 1990's till about 2001, when he closed shop, to go work for bear Archery(still there now)
so I always had a guy that knew more than me, to point out and help set up all my bows for most of my bow hunting career
I will say, to be 100% honest, having started off with bows that were far from todays quality, and so called in tunes set up per the shooter
I haven't really ever got a lot better accuracy than back when I first started!, I held nice groups at the ranges I shot at, from 5 yrds to about 50, and when I target shot out to 60-70-80, just for fun, I still shot well(no prize winning, and again not bragging) but I held my own, with bows that never were anything BUT off the shelf and in my hands, many with wrong draw lengths, and all!, I learned to adapt as needed, due to in my early yrs, money was tight, so money rulled the way and what's I had!

so to me, having gear that is all in sync with you/tuned to you, sure can help
but I truely believe, its not 100% needed to shoot well(well enough to kill a deer at "X" range)
there is a fine line between accurate and supper accurate, and over kill ( a 3 inch group, a 2 inch group hole for hole)
sure nice to strive for the best you can, but I feel many get caught up in a lot of hype these days

so I guess I went from zero tuning to turning assisted by a pro! LOL

[Mike F]

I guess everyone has their own idea of what tuning is. And I am here to tell you that someone else CANNOT tune your bow 100%...Period.
Now if you want to pay money and have someone get it close, then that's fine. Most of the people are just bowhunting, and shooting mech heads that don't need a supertune. But at well over 300 fps and fixed blades, you better be supertuned. There were people talking about these tuning people and how good their form is...What if your draw is shorter then theirs, or even worst longer.
I don't think anybody on here can shoot Longdraw's bow with any kinda form. Let alone draw it back. To many differences in people.
I'm quite sure mrbb isn't going to let someone sight in has rifle 100%, and I bet he cracks off a couple rounds before he takes it out, just to double check. Because he wants it, the way he wants it, not how someone else wants it.

Well anyways just wanted leave you guys with that note, not that anyone cares.

[buckstalker17]

I care mike.it all comes down to educating your self on how to tune properly understanding how all the parts work together and how just everything makes a difference if someone else replaces your string and sets your peep where they think it i supposed to be it throws the set up off the sight group has to moved up not to mention it also changes your anchor point and if the loop is a little high or low then that takes the whole bow out of Wack so for me I will always be my own super tuner nobody knows how I shoot and how my form is better than I do. Not someone who is 500 miles away in a quote proshop calling him self a super tuner his tune will only work for him not me. It amazes me sometimes how people buy into corporate America sales pitches you buy these sights and if you have any problems then its your form or if you have any problems with our supertune then it's your form not our tune that's just idiotic to buy into that you can kill any animal with a $20.00 sights that your can with a $5000.00 it's called practice

[mrbb]

I guess everyone has their own idea of what tuning is. And I am here to tell you that someone else CANNOT tune your bow 100%...Period.
Now if you want to pay money and have someone get it close, then that's fine. Most of the people are just bowhunting, and shooting mech heads that don't need a supertune. But at well over 300 fps and fixed blades, you better be supertuned. There were people talking about these tuning people and how good their form is...What if your draw is shorter then theirs, or even worst longer.
I don't think anybody on here can shoot Longdraw's bow with any kinda form. Let alone draw it back. To many differences in people.
I'm quite sure mrbb isn't going to let someone sight in has rifle 100%, and I bet he cracks off a couple rounds before he takes it out, just to double check. Because he wants it, the way he wants it, not how someone else wants it.

Well anyways just wanted leave you guys with that note, not that anyone cares.
well I care Mike!, and I agree, either you set it up as you like, work with someone that knws how to,, or just be haoppy how ever it works asit is!
those are your most common options, more or less
OR learn how to make it to your likings, either reading, watching video's or having someone again teach/show you( preferably the RIGHT way, and not just what someone thinks des what)
But again, I also feel it comes down to how accurate you feel your need to be
I won't own a rifle that doesn't meet my accuracy standards
and I am sure many bow guys are the same with there bow/gear
what one persons feels is enough, another guy might not!
same goes I think for brnad names too, many folks feel the need way too much to have"X" what ever, or have "X" wok done to it to be happy
name of the game is enjoying what you hunt with, and being able to make clean kills
a super tuned bow, or a regular bow that the shooter is happy and accurate enough to make clean kills?
to each there own!

[SKO]

I guess everyone has their own idea of what tuning is. And I am here to tell you that someone else CANNOT tune your bow 100%...Period.
Now if you want to pay money and have someone get it close, then that's fine. Most of the people are just bowhunting, and shooting mech heads that don't need a supertune. But at well over 300 fps and fixed blades, you better be supertuned. There were people talking about these tuning people and how good their form is...What if your draw is shorter then theirs, or even worst longer.
I don't think anybody on here can shoot Longdraw's bow with any kinda form. Let alone draw it back. To many differences in people.
I'm quite sure mrbb isn't going to let someone sight in has rifle 100%, and I bet he cracks off a couple rounds before he takes it out, just to double check. Because he wants it, the way he wants it, not how someone else wants it.

Well anyways just wanted leave you guys with that note, not that anyone cares.

Mike what about a dual cam system? It does not take an act of god to teach someone how ti hold a bow properly. No amount of tuning will make up for piss poor form no matter how much tunimg you do. If you do tune the bow to the shooter, you would be compromising the output of the bow and causing adverse wear on different parts of the bow like the cams and strings.

[buckstalker17]

Mike what about a dual cam system? It does not take an act of god to teach someone how ti hold a bow properly. No amount of tuning will make up for piss poor form no matter how much tunimg you do. If you do tune the bow to the shooter, you would be compromising the output of the bow and causing adverse wear on different parts of the bow like the cams and strings.

I don't buy that you can tune a bow for someone who don't have good form if the shooter shoots the same way all the time then how can you not tune for that go to a spot league shoot some time and just stand there and watch them out of 100 people may 3or 4 people have a similar form and the look the same at release would that mean everyone else has poor form and improper tune. And possibly damaging there bow I don't think that would be true. There is no standard for perfect form different coaches teach different ways to hold and shoot a bow I've seen guys leaning way to the rt I've seen them lean forward and to the back so do they all have bad form also. I'm asking i also be leave that poor shooting form as you call it starts at the i.e. pro shop for not taking the time to make sure the bow is properly fitted to the shooter and educating him or her on basic fundamentals now i will say some do most will not i mean really a guy or gal comes and spends 1200.00 and they dont a few extra min to point them in the rt direction and how do you set up a bow for a new shooter thats has never shot before do you tell them here is your new 1200.00 bow come back when you dont have piss poor form and we will tune it then

[SKO]

I don't buy that you can tune a bow for someone who don't have good form if the shooter shoots the same way all the time then how can you not tune for that go to a spot league shoot some time and just stand there and watch them out of 100 people may 3or 4 people have a similar form and the look the same at release would that mean everyone else has poor form and improper tune. And possibly damaging there bow I don't think that would be true. There is no standard for perfect form different coaches teach different ways to hold and shoot a bow I've seen guys leaning way to the rt I've seen them lean forward and to the back so do they all have bad form also. I'm asking i also be leave that poor shooting form as you call it starts at the i.e. pro shop for not taking the time to make sure the bow is properly fitted to the shooter and educating him or her on basic fundamentals now i will say some do most will not i mean really a guy or gal comes and spends 1200.00 and they dont a few extra min to point them in the rt direction and how do you set up a bow for a new shooter thats has never shot before do you tell them here is your new 1200.00 bow come back when you dont have piss poor form and we will tune it then

Your not going to buy anything i say so lets just both agree on that point and move on. Its not worth our time to bicker about it. I think we both can accept that you have had a poor experience at your local shops and think every other shop is like that, thats your hang up and we all accept that. Your perception is your reality you offer opinion and little facts. I will give u a quick example of unusual wear. A friend of mine briught his bow over because he wanted me to look over. his setup and see if i could do any improvements. The bow was setup and shot decent. The only thing i could help him with was the excessive string wear on the serving at the idler wheel. He is now inly going to get ine more year on a string that had at least 2 yeats of life in it.

[buckstalker17]

Your not going to buy anything i say so lets just both agree on that point and move on. Its not worth our time to bicker about it. I think we noth accept that you have had a poor experience at your local shops and think every other shop is like that, thats your hang up and we all accept that. Your perception is your reality you offer opinion and little facts. I will give u a quick example of unusual wear. A friend of mine briught his bow over because he wanted me to look over. his setup and see if i could do any improvements. The bow was setup and shot decent. The only thing i could help him with was the excessive string wear on the serving at the idler wheel. He is now inly going to get ine more year on a string that had at least 2 yeats of life in it.
im not trying to pick a fight I'm trying to get educated thats all if im wrong tell me im wrong and why i am wrong i can handle it and yes i have had a bad experience thats why i learned to do my own work i will give you a clear example of why i said that some not all bow shops dont always fit the shooter to the bow there is a place out east of me where i pick up alot of my gear i will not name co name and sometimes i will go back to the bow area and just watch and i watched them set this guys bow up and he is shooting and all happy but what he doesn't know is that the bow was clearly to long of a draw length his string was clear back to his ear and they just let him walk out the door like that but as far as stating facts i will admit i don't know everything and all the numbers on how things work that is why i joined this site now i think we got off on the wrong foot im man enough to admit that if you dont think im paying atten i checked with mathews today and they advised me that the fps between the 60 lbs -70lb bow is a average 2 fps per pound so on average its about 20 fps faster and at peek draw weight not 10-12 as you as you had stated as far as opinion and facts where are your facts on the subject you have produced none to state your claim like you said we will just disagree on this subject matter and just let it go there and as far as facts go i will give you fact and example we will use nascar just so its not about bows a crew chief for say ryan newman he is there for say 5 years then he moves over to say jeff gordan now does he set the car the same way he did for ryan newman and say if you can not win with this setup then you are a terrible driver or does he set up the car for jeff gordan you set the car up for the driver each driver drives a different way no different here now you can give me clear facts on why I'm wrong on this subject or stop saying that I'm uninformed and useing insults instead of facts ,and that i only have opinions to offer you have gave me nothing to dispute as far as facts go and so that you are informed the topic is who do trust to tune your bow all your doing is dragging a topic from another thread

[Big_Holla]

Decent discussion everyone. Keep the emotions out of it and it can continue to be productive.

I think when some people hear TUNE your bow they instantly look at only how the arrow comes off the bow....whether I can shoot fixed blade heads or have to resort to a mechanical. Only a hand full of shooters out there look at PERFORMANCE and how efficient that arrow is coming out of the bow. Sure, the final basic steps in tuning that most think of when we say the word TUNE involve slight adjustments of the rest and or nocking point and I believe it sure should involve the shooter in the end.

Some of the tuning that doesn't involve the shooter for the most part (and perhaps where the disagreement starts) would be cam timing, leaning cams, yoke tuned in yoke style set-ups, etc. all of which affects over all performance of the bow. Reading more into this stuff I then see that little tweaks here and there in the equipment to get that peak performance really would not require the shooter to be present. That's where the chronograph would also be used I believe, to see what little tweaks do to the performance. Whether the bow shop guy shoots it himself if he can handle the draw weight and length, or if they have a Hooter Shooter I don't know but if they are going to those lengths to get that performance then I'd say they likely know what they are doing. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe PERFORMANCE is what I think most are trying to accomplish with true and ACTUAL tuning of our bows. Where the shooter becomes necessary IMO is later, when you start going in the direction of
whether I can shoot fixed blade heads or have to resort to a mechanical.

I think the one thing that most, if not all of us, can agree on is no two shooters are exactly the same. A (good) shop may be able to get that bow very close without the shooter....I mean very close...IF they know what they are doing and take the steps to get it right. They can paper tune and walk back tune and make little adjustments in the rest, string twists, nocking point, etc. to get that bow shooting to as close to center shot as they can, after all of the performance tuning is done. However, IMO again, the final fine tuning of the rest and the remaining steps to personalize the equipment should be done with/by the actual shooter. Finally, IMO if the shooter is inexperienced or has flaws in their form then perhaps the shop set-up wouldn't even need changing any more for the shooter.

[buckstalker17]

I see what your saying you would not have to be present for say retiming the cams if they are off or if the cams or cam is leaning but those are major repairs after they are fixed or replaced more often then not the the peep will have moved as well as the knocking point has moved could only be a 1/8 of a inch but that would be enough to throw a bow way out I will use my bow to make my point I have a 27 inch draw so say they man at the shop is has a 32 inch draw he would not be to paper tune my bow with any degree of accuracy if he had a machine do it yea he could get it close but if not he would just be paper tuning for the way he is holding the bow and he could couldn't even begin to get the peep rt.even what kind of release you use can change a tune I use back tension with a thumb release so how would tune for that any change you make affects something else I use a 29 mm scope on my bow so a 1/8 or a1/16 of a inch is a long way off so therefore if the peep and the knocking point are off for me then the tune he just did wouldn't even work !!! therefore they should know I need to be there to make the adjustment so in a nut shell you can not properly tune a bow with out he or she being present some might call it a opinion I call it a fact. This will always be a sore subject with people and no bow shop should be so vain as to say they can get it perfect and if its not shooting dead on then it's something he or she is doing wrong. This is why I will continue to be the only person to tune my bow I'm the only person I trust 100%

[Big_Holla]

Basically you are saying the same thing I just did. The end final stages of tuning really are in the hands of the shooter IMO. Everything up to that point could likely be taken care of by the expert shop guy, even the paper tuning and all, to get the bow to perform at it's peak. I say this because if he is doing his job, is very experienced and has a reputation to prove it then it will be close to being right there for the shooter. Key word "close"......for some it may be perfect and need another adjustment, for others some fine tuning might be necessary. Nothing is perfect but if they know what they are doing you would think they should be able to shoot a bow that doesn't quite fit them.....granted it would be difficult to shoot a longer draw bow than what they can handle but maybe that's the exception to the rule....but in the end it should be very close and require only minimal tuning from that point on. What percentage of the whole process is it? Heck I don't know and I don't know if you can put a number on it. For some situations it may be 95% out of the shooters hands, for others it may end up at 50% and in that case it wouldn't be "close" enough.

[Big_Holla]

To keep the numbers thing going and keep it in perspective....

Say a pro-shop dude does all his tinkering and hands the bow back to you and you find there is nothing needed any further....he then produced a 100% fully tuned bow to you that works as you expected. If you need to do a little adjusting on the rest or tweaking the nocking point a little bit then maybe he is at 80-90%. Say it isn't shooting worth S#!T then I would say that pro-shop dude took the pro-shop out of his title and is just a dud(e). :smash:

[buckstalker17]

To keep the numbers thing going and keep it in perspective....

Say a pro-shop dude does all his tinkering and hands the bow back to you and you find there is nothing needed any further....he then produced a 100% fully tuned bow to you that works as you expected. If you need to do a little adjusting on the rest or tweaking the nocking point a little bit then maybe he is at 80-90%. Say it isn't shooting worth S#!T then I would say that pro-shop dude took the pro-shop out of his title and is just a dud(e). :smash:

What you are getting is a bow that is tuned maybe 50% if that it is only 100% by his standards what they are doing is trying to do is to make the shooter adjust to the bow instead of fitting the bow to shooter a slight adjustment in the knocking point or peep is a big deal that will change everything.So he says it is paper tuned perfectly it is spot on ok say he uses a larger diameter Arrow than I do and that will effect the tune So all you really are getting is a bow that all parts are working as the should. How many people have you seen and I know you have seen it stretch there neck way out to reach the peep sight.

[Big_Holla]

LOL now it's getting confusing!! There are so many variables....It all depends on what level of tuning the shop guy brings it to when the owner isn't there, or in the case of a guy that does it through the mail. Too many hypotheticals and what if's to even make an educated guess. Sure a shop guy could say it's paper tuned and all but that doesn't mean it is going to be perfect in another persons hands, said that before. What they could be doing is getting it as close to what they would consider perfect and then the owner might have to tweak from there. All I keep saying is if the mechanical side is done then the personalization side of things is separate in the tuning process. We have to keep throwing numbers out but like I said, could be 95% tuned or 72.3% tuned...just depends on what needs to be tweaked to get it shooting right in the hands of the owner. Anyone that would just get a bow back from a shop or mail order fix-er-upper and doesn't check things on their own is likely not very well versed in tuning anyways. Hopefully the shop helps them finalize it to their needs.


So he says it is paper tuned perfectly it is spot on ok say he uses a larger diameter Arrow than I do and that will effect the tune

Sure that's one of the variables...the mail order guy doesn't care. The shop owner guy may care and help fine tune.


So all you really are getting is a bow that all parts are working as the should.

Maybe with the mail order dude...yes...shop guy...who knows...hopefully willing to personalize as I have said.


How many people have you seen and I know you have seen it stretch there neck way out to reach the peep sight.

Never saw it in my life.

[Big_Holla]

I guess what I am getting at is a mail order kind of shop (IMO) cannot get the bow to 100%, maybe if lucky or perhaps an inexperienced shooter that cannot tell the difference. The final steps of tuning likely still have to be done by the owner.

A bow shop dude should know what they are doing and not let you leave without everything being right. Do you have to be there to watch all the tinkering to tune the mechanical side...yes and no. Only one way to learn and when it comes to the personal side of customization it's easier to finish it up.

[buckstalker17]

i will depends on what you doing with the bow i suppose more than likely someone who only shoots the bow during hunting season probably be more than happy with the tune that he gets from a pro shop and kill many deer.. im not saying they have no idea what they are doing most know exactly what they are doing but here is where the self tuning comes... mike f like myself shoot the same bow we hunt with we use for competition killing and deer at say 30 yards standing broad side to you has a larger kill zone and a modest room for error but when you are shooting competition the difference between winning and loosing and scoring high or low is measured by thousandth of a inch i hope you get why my view is the way its is i will never gamble the fact that someone can tune a bow for me better than i can !!!!!! and mike if i spoke out of place for you my bad i will buy you a bottle of wine hahahaha

[SKO]

Do yall know what paper tuning tells you? Serious question for buckstalker and big holla.

[buckstalker17]

PAPER TUNING WILL TELL YOU WHAT THE ARROW IS DOING / HOW YOUR FORM IS AM I HOLDING THE BOW CORRECTLY /CONSISTENCY OF MY RELEASES. AM I RELEASING THE ARROW THE SAME WAY EVERY TIME



I SHOOT PAPER ALL THE TIME AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK FOR A HOUR OR SO

[SKO]

Clean up your post so i can understand what you are saying.

[buckstalker17]

CLEARED UP ?

[SKO]

CLEARED UP ?

Yes thanks.

[SKO]

PAPER TUNING WILL TELL YOU WHAT THE ARROW IS DOING / HOW YOUR FORM IS AM I HOLDING THE BOW CORRECTLY /CONSISTENCY OF MY RELEASES. AM I RELEASING THE ARROW THE SAME WAY EVERY TIME



I SHOOT PAPER ALL THE TIME AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK FOR A HOUR OR SO

This seems like a lot of paper time. Is your bow tuned or not?

[buckstalker17]

Yes sir it is tuned just fine I'm going to assume with your lack of response to your question i would be correct and that your perception of me is your reality ?

[SKO]

Yes sir it is tuned just fine I'm going to assume with your lack of response to your question i would be correct and that your perception of me is your reality ?

If you get an odd tear, do you adjust your bow every time? What else do you use the paper for?

[buckstalker17]

You asked me a honest and fair question and I answered it and I was correct I said nothing derogatory to you but since I was correct and you assumed i had no clue so your back to the insults so there is nothing left I need to prove to you sir. You have clearly joined the site for the wrong reasons. So I will have no responses for you from here after. Welcome to BHO or thanks for visiting I don't care either way.

[SKO]

You asked me a honest and fair question and I answered it and I was correct I said nothing derogatory to you but since I was correct and you assumed i had no clue so your back to the insults so there is nothing left I need to prove to you sir. You have clearly joined the site for the wrong reasons. So I will have no responses for you from here after. Welcome to BHO or thanks for visiting I don't care either way.

Nice to see you FINALLY admitting it. You were very derogatory and quite rude to me specifically. Denying that shows your true character. Why wont you answer the question if your here to learn? I know what you just learned and we will leave it at that.

[hortontoter]

I shoot a crossbow, but find the tuning discussion interesting. I'm curious what does a tear in the paper tell you? I remember watching a friend of mine shoot through a piece of paper at about 2 or 3 feet away one time years ago. He was tuning his bow, but I never asked what shooting through a piece of paper so close would tell him. I'm assuming a tear means the arrow is coming out in an uphill or downhill manner and the arrow would take longer to stablize. So I'd assume the nocking point would need changed.

If a bow is a little out of tune and the arrow doesn't leave the bow in a straight plane wouldn't longer fletching help to correct the flight of the arrow. I'm sure longer fletching is not the best approach, but it should help.

[Big_Holla]

You asked me a honest and fair question and I answered it and I was correct I said nothing derogatory to you but since I was correct and you assumed i had no clue so your back to the insults so there is nothing left I need to prove to you sir. You have clearly joined the site for the wrong reasons. So I will have no responses for you from here after. Welcome to BHO or thanks for visiting I don't care either way.


Nice to see you FINALLY admitting it. You were very derogatory and quite rude to me specifically. Denying that shows your true character. Why wont you answer the question if your here to learn? I know what you just learned and we will leave it at that.

Keep the emotions out of it and stop worrying about offending or being offended and this can continue to be a good discussion fellas. I know in the end you guys likely will not ever kiss and make up but maybe by the end you both can respect each other and maybe one day sit around a campfire and have a beer together.

[Big_Holla]

Do yall know what paper tuning tells you? Serious question for buckstalker and big holla.

I will be the first to admit I don't know enough about most of the tuning, including paper tuning, like I would prefer to. I have attempted to do paper tuning, using the Easton information, and made adjustments to my rest and sometimes my nocking point over the years but to say I use it and only it would be not true. Do I know what each tear means when it happens? Well, let me consult that Easton guide LOL. I have learned enough to make some adjustments to get that hole close to perfect though. But that doesn't always seem to be the answer.

When I was having problems a few years ago getting my ABC...fly like your field points...to fly correctly I went through paper tuning and still ended up back at my archery shop. There is where I learned about walk back tuning and was instructed how to adjust my rest first to get the rest aligned better, then was instructed how to help get my broadheads to fly close to the same as my field tips. I say close because on my own I still could not get them perfect. I will be the first to admit the fact I could not get my fixed blades to fly the same as my field tips was the reason I started using the G5 T3's. My confidence out to 20 with fixed was pretty good. Beyond that I was questioning myself and I didn't like that.

I don't have anyone around here to learn from and the best bow shop within 50 miles seems to be decent at helping but I am not 100% confident they have the knowledge or rather the patience to actually tune the way I am reading some of these guys do these days.

[buckstalker17]

Nice to see you FINALLY admitting it. You were very derogatory and quite rude to me specifically. Denying that shows your true character. Why wont you answer the question if your here to learn? I know what you just learned and we will leave it at that.

Ok the 2 questions you have asked that I have not answered
Efficiency loss between the 60lbs bow at peek vs 70lbs bow at peek you had said that it is 10-12 fps so that would be 2.899% decrease in efficiency with both bows at peek
Mathews says around 20fps so that would be 5.798% decrease in efficiency between 60& 70 at peek. Now if you want to find out what that comes out to in yardage you can take the same 2 bows hold them at what ever angle you want and let them fly that's on you but I would say no more than 25 yrds at the most

Question 2 why do I shoot paper all the time ( In the winter time I shoot indoor spot league so I use paper to mimic the shoot they alternate from 3 spot to 5 spot so this way I don't have to buy targets and if there is a odd tear I do not change any thing on the bow the paper will so you what you did wrong

And as far as character I bought a paid for 10 Mathews youth bow for my brothers kids Cub Scout pack so that he could teach them about archery What would that say about my character ?

[buckstalker17]

HT ) the reason you stand close say 4-6 feet is so that you a clear view of what the arrow is doing before the (vanes) have a chance to correct the arrow. As far as left - right High -low lets say you have a a constant right you would assume that you would just move the arrow rest to right and fixed but you move the rest to the right and you have no change at all what that is telling you is that you may be holding the bow incorrectly. You are having a problem with your form but if you know your form is correct and it still doing the same thing then it could be the way you releasing the arrow or it could be a flat out equipment problem now lets say you know your form is correct just to make this shorter your arrow keeps hitting low so you move the arrow rest up and it should be corrected but its not what this could be telling you is that you might have a high nock problem so you move the nocking point down and it's better but it still dropping low. This could also tell you that the arrow shaft may be to long. Now there are other possible reasons for each example im just giving you a few. Paper tuning is a tool it will tell you a multitude of things you just have to figure out what it's telling you.

[hortontoter]

Seems like a lot of variables. Could take a while to get things the way that the shooter and the bow both are comfortable with.

I'll get back to waxing the shafts on my crossbow bolts. So much less complicated.

[Big_Holla]

Seems like a lot of variables. Could take a while to get things the way that the shooter and the bow both are comfortable with.

I'll get back to waxing the shafts on my crossbow bolts. So much less complicated.

LOL now you know why so many just choose to shoot mechanicals!!

[buckstalker17]

H T you are a prime example of what this topic is about if you have a new string put on your cross bow at pro shop and he says it tuned up and sighted in there would be no way you would trust that shop to cock and sight in your crossbow after the problems you had last year would you. I could be wrong though that's why I'm asking. I'm sure you trust them with the string and all

[Big_Holla]

To me tuning never involves sighting in your bow anyways. Unless you are using it for walk back tuning. As far as a crossbow goes, the next time I have a string replaced on the family one....I'll let them handle putting it on and trust they know what they are doing period!!

[buckstalker17]

To me tuning never involves sighting in your bow anyways. Unless you are using it for walk back tuning. As far as a crossbow goes, the next time I have a string replaced on the family one....I'll let them handle putting it on and trust they know what they are doing period!!

Read the last line I know he trust them I trust the guys I use to I'm saying if they hand his bow back and say we tuned her up and sighted in would he trust them when they say they sighted in at say 20 yards after the problems he had last year it was just a question for ht that is all it was about and to me sighting is the bow is the most important part of the process. If the arrow doesn't know where to go then everything you have do to this point would be totally useless ?

[hortontoter]

Well the answer depends on the crossbow. When I first got my Horton about nine years ago it had a string that you could replace without messing with the cables and wheels. The string attached to two tear drop shaped metal pieces on the ends of the cables that sat inside the limb span. I bought a string a bit longer and attached it to the metal pieces and then partially cocked my bow. This left slack in the string I needed to replace. I simply removed the old string, put the new one in place and then relaxed the pressure on the limbs and the new string was in place. I would then check my zero. Usually within an inch or two of where the old string hit. A couple quick shots and back to zero.

A few years ago I had a limb crack while practicing. Horton would no longer sell the limbs I had due to the tear drop piece being an injury hazard. So I had to replace limbs, wheels cable and all. I had the bow fitted with all the new parts and brought it home to check it out. The first shot I completely missed the entire block target at 20 yards. Height was pretty fair, but I shot a good bit to the right of the target. I was actually surprised I had enough adjustment in the scope to get on target. But, it did sight in and I still had some adjustment left on the scope.

Why this change occured I don't know. But, to answer your question, I would always check my setup to make sure it is on the money. I do this weekly in my backyard during hunting season, just to feel confident.

I learned a huge lesson about crossbows because of the experience I had losing the best buck I had ever taken a shot at that Halloween evening. The arrow hitting that deer low and to the right at nine yards still haunts me. I can still see him running up that fire road with my bolt waving me goodbye. I have never let anyone cock my crossbow since that shot was taken. When I shot it the next morning and hit nearly 10 inches right and four inches low after my stepson cocked it I was shocked. I was even more shocked that when I used my EZ Winder that I cock the crossbow with when I practice it was dead on. To see that big of a difference at 20 yards was unbelievable. But, it made me a better hunter. I've not missed or lost a deer since.

[buckstalker17]

Well the answer depends on the crossbow. When I first got my Horton about nine years ago it had a string that you could replace without messing with the cables and wheels. The string attached to two tear drop shaped metal pieces on the ends of the cables that sat inside the limb span. I bought a string a bit longer and attached it to the metal pieces and then partially cocked my bow. This left slack in the string I needed to replace. I simply removed the old string, put the new one in place and then relaxed the pressure on the limbs and the new string was in place. I would then check my zero. Usually within an inch or two of where the old string hit. A couple quick shots and back to zero.

A few years ago I had a limb crack while practicing. Horton would no longer sell the limbs I had due to the tear drop piece being an injury hazard. So I had to replace limbs, wheels cable and all. I had the bow fitted with all the new parts and brought it home to check it out. The first shot I completely missed the entire block target at 20 yards. Height was pretty fair, but I shot a good bit to the right of the target. I was actually surprised I had enough adjustment in the scope to get on target. But, it did sight in and I still had some adjustment left on the scope.

Why this change occured I don't know. But, to answer your question, I would always check my setup to make sure it is on the money. I do this weekly in my backyard during hunting season, just to feel confident.

I learned a huge lesson about crossbows because of the experience I had losing the best buck I had ever taken a shot at that Halloween evening. The arrow hitting that deer low and to the right at nine yards still haunts me. I can still see him running up that fire road with my bolt waving me goodbye. I have never let anyone cock my crossbow since that shot was taken. When I shot it the next morning and hit nearly 10 inches right and four inches low after my stepson cocked it I was shocked. I was even more shocked that when I used my EZ Winder that I cock the crossbow with when I practice it was dead on. To see that big of a difference at 20 yards was unbelievable. But, it made me a better hunter. I've not missed or lost a deer since.

Thank you for answering the question and your response is what I knew it would be. We as hunters have a duty to any animal the we hunt a clean kill so to go into the woods with a bow or crossbow that was not set up and properly tuned fitting your shooting style or tuned by you can and most often ends up a wound or a gut shot yea he might die in 2 hours or 12 hours or maybe days later from a infection. A lot of hunters that wound a deer and can't find it say well I must have hit a limb and hit to far back sometimes that may happen but instead of going home to make sure everything is on point they just keep on hunting

but that is where the ethical shooting comes in if you a clear shooting lane take it if you don't then don't
HT did the correct thing he knew there was a problem and took the time to find and solve the problem and like he said wounding that deer still bothers him today as should the rest of us. but like mr bb put it we do live in a good enough world

[Big_Holla]

I had made a statement yesterday to someone I though joined the site for the wrong reasons but after today I be leave I joined the wrong site for the rite reasons people don't have to like your choices or opinions but I be leave you should respect them that's not the case but when you answer a question for some one and you get heckled by the someone else or it turns into a argument then I think I maybe helpful to someone on another site so to the friends I've met on here mike f hortontotor Stonegod seeker and Ross I hope you guys have a safe hunting season

Unless I am missing something it seemed like both of you were trading comments and once that seemed to cool both have made good progress at actually having discussions. I keep saying leave your emotions out of this and actually talk about things and that above is nothing but an emotional response. Like I said, unless I am missing something.

I can't keep people here who already have made up their minds to leave and are just looking for an excuse to do it. I have put my heart and soul into trying to make this place a better place for people to come and talk bowhunting. I simply cannot understand how grown adults can get so pissed off and threaten to me and the other members to leave simply because someone doesn't see it the same way as them. The goal of this thread was to find equal ground between one side of an argument or another and it has been working from everything I see. I am not the world bowhunter and I am not the know it all tuner of bows which is what this thread was about and why it was created, because there are others out there like me. I look at both sides and see legitimate comments and views from both angles. I also see a lot of knowledge on both sides that is getting flaunted and touted but not much of anything beneficial being shared that someone less knowledgeable like me could actually use.

I will say it one more time....keep the emotions out of it and try to inform...that is what this forum is all about. With that statement I do take this quitting stuff to heart, especially when I go through my life teaching my children it's better to fight for what you believe in rather than take the easy road and be a quitter.

[hortontoter]

Facts are that we are never all going to agree on one thing or another. I've found it best sometimes to just keep some of my thoughts, just that, my thoughts and not type what I'm thinking.

The idea is not to try to "one up" the other guy. We all have our own ideas on how we do things and can tell others our ideas. If someonme else thinks their idea is better than ours they may post it. Whether we agree with their idea should be neither her nor there, for the most part.

An example would be the subject of scent control. My theory is to hunt a stand only when the wind is in a certain direction. Others say hunt any wind and use scent control products or smoke up. I think scent control products are a gimmick. I find the smoking up idea a bit humorus, but it may have some merit. But, I'm not going to say the guys that use these ideas are dead wrong, it just isn't my idea of scent control. So to argue over who is right or wrong is a waste of time. In theory we are both right and our techniques work for us.

My only pet peeve is when someone does somthing that I think is unethical. Then I find it hard to bite my tongue. But, many times I even let that slide any more. That too is a line we may all draw differently.

[Big_Holla]

I always find myself in the middle on a lot of things over the years here and in life but I also think that's the best place to be as that is where you learn more. It's also very hard though to have friends that expect you to see things only their way and at the same time try to keep an open mind to hear another's view point. I always want to learn so if someone takes the time to post I at least try to understand where the are coming from and why they feel that way. They may rub some the wrong way and the message may be lost in the discussion but hopefully I can see through all of that and learn from it. Now I am not afraid to call :icon_bs: where :icon_bs: is due but then again I have to remember that being a moderator means (at least to me) that not everyone will see eye to eye and hopefully I can be a means to settle things down and at least keep respect in the forum. If it means giving someone a :chillpill: then so be it.

Keep an open mind and always look to learn and soon some of the off the wall comments or opinons don't seem to be that crazy or :reddevil: (evil) LOL

BTW, smoking up does work!! :sifone: :sifone:

[SKO]

Ok the 2 questions you have asked that I have not answered
Efficiency loss between the 60lbs bow at peek vs 70lbs bow at peek you had said that it is 10-12 fps so that would be 2.899% decrease in efficiency with both bows at peek
Mathews says around 20fps so that would be 5.798% decrease in efficiency between 60& 70 at peek. Now if you want to find out what that comes out to in yardage you can take the same 2 bows hold them at what ever angle you want and let them fly that's on you but I would say no more than 25 yrds at the most

Question 2 why do I shoot paper all the time ( In the winter time I shoot indoor spot league so I use paper to mimic the shoot they alternate from 3 spot to 5 spot so this way I don't have to buy targets and if there is a odd tear I do not change any thing on the bow the paper will so you what you did wrong

And as far as character I bought a paid for 10 Mathews youth bow for my brothers kids Cub Scout pack so that he could teach them about archery What would that say about my character ?

Hmm so your taking your tuned bow and learning to shoot consistantly. How is this any different than what a ship and return tuner is doing? I see you have a binary cam bow your shooting. What did you have to do to thr bow to get it it tunes to your specification? The answer to the efficiency question is zero. There is less stored energy in a 60 pound bow than a 70. Tricked you a little:eek:

[Strother23]

Basic stuff I do myself. If I have a problem or need something major I go to Fishermans Warehouse on south side of Columbus. Nice family owned shop